Diary of a Matchmaker
Getting married is tough for the vast majority of Muslims in the West. We know because we’ve been there. My (Zaid) journey spanned nearly nine years. It was filled with rejections and self-doubt. While I (Hiba) didn't know there was a journey to be on in the first place. After we got married we decided to create something different to help single Muslims complete their deen. And so our matchmaking service Halal Match was born.
After a few years of interviewing singles, a friend suggested we journal our stories. We tweaked that idea and turned it into a podcast. In ‘Diary of a Matchmaker’ we’ll take you through this unfamiliar world of matchmaking. We’ll share our stories, experiences, and much more. So say Bismillah and tune in.
Do you have a story to share? Email us at: info@halalmatch.ca
Diary of a Matchmaker
Is Your Past Stealing Your Future Marriage? w/ Hana Alasry
In this episode, we dive into the impact of trauma on single Muslims, especially how past experiences shape relationships. A trauma-informed coach joins us; Hana Alasry who shares insights on the importance of hope in healing and how the Prophet (PBUH) navigated immense personal loss with resilience, trusting in Allah’s Qadr. We also discuss how small triggers can lead to emotional breakdowns and the need to reach out for help, even with the cultural stigma around it. This conversation is a powerful reminder that healing is not only possible but essential, and with faith, even the deepest wounds can transform into strength.
Follow Hana Alasry on her: Website, Instagram, and YouTube channel.
Assalamu alaikum, I'm Hiba. And I'm Zaid, you're listening to Diary of a Matchmaker.
Speaker 2:A podcast that will take you into our world as matchmakers.
Speaker 1:We'll share our experiences and offer advice for the single Muslim.
Speaker 2:So let's dive in. Bismillah, alright. Assalamu alaikum everyone. My name is Zaid and on the other mic is my wife and co-host, hiba, so we're honored to have a guest today, hanna Al-Asri. She is a physician assistant, trauma coach and content creator. She focuses on creating content for God-conscious healing and provides coaching for Muslim women with complex trauma. Hanna has done her continuing medical education in topics of complex PTSD, mental health interventions and therapeutic interventions for trauma and also has over a decade of Islamic community organizing and speaking experience locally and nationally.
Speaker 3:Mashallah.
Speaker 2:Yes, thank you for coming on.
Speaker 3:No problem. Thank you guys for having me.
Speaker 2:No problem. So what inspired you to specialize in trauma and what has that journey been like as a Muslim in this field?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so the kind of the peak inspiration around getting into this work, because I think it is a lot more common now. If you go on social media, everybody's talking about trauma, but the reality of it is that several years ago nobody was talking about it. It was a huge gap in the research. It was a gap in knowledge, even at the highest levels of education around mental health. I think I found it very frustrating that, although we come from a deen that is so robust and complex subhanAllah, that the Quran'an talks about trauma and that there's so much that intersects in terms of what the Qur'an and the Seerah of the Prophet has to offer in relationship to trauma and what the science around trauma and actually integrating trauma complex PTSD has Nobody was doing the work to meld it together Like that intersection. I think at one point when I first started, there was one lecture online.
Speaker 3:One that I could find. I talked about trauma from an Islamic perspective and it wasn't even talking about how to resolve it, it was just talking about its existence. And so people are getting kind of this, like it's almost like saying like you know, let's say you have a gaping wound, like someone stabbed you, and you have this bleeding wound. And I come up to you and I'm like you have a wound and it's bleeding, and did you know what cells make up blood? Did you know about hemostasis and how that happens? Isn't it incredible? Actually, we have this thing called suturing, so when a laceration is big, I can stitch it up for you Isn't that cool? And you're still bleeding, that's what it felt like. You hear about it, but nobody's giving you the guy. Who do you go to? Who should you identify? So I decided I was going to be the one to create those resources and I did. I created essentially my first iteration of a trauma group coaching program. I'm not a therapist, I'm not a counselor, so I can't offer therapy, but coaching was so much in line with what I had been doing already for many years in the community, islamic community, organizing space. So I just had to sit there and think how do I take the best of what I have from my medical knowledge, from my community organizing knowledge and then just the part of me that's kind of creative and knows how to offer solutions and build that into something that would be of service to our community. And that's where the Seeking Wholeness Trauma group coaching program came from.
Speaker 3:Then, while I was doing that, I realized, well, people also might not be ready to heal or to invest in that time and effort that it takes to join a program. How do we create content around that so people understand? At least here's a framework. If you don't want to work with me, how do you find someone to work with? What should you know? What should you be doing? What should you be avoiding?
Speaker 3:Because another thing was a lot of the more recent um, kind of out sprouting of trauma experts I I put experts in quotes because I've from someone who actually is an expert in this there's a lot of gaps in people's knowledge. Uh, how do you know who to go to and who to avoid? Because a lot of people are using things that are actually not Islamically validated or scientifically validated, but it's easy to sell, so you have to be super mindful. So that's kind of my journey. I started in 2021. And it's 2024. And, alhamdulillah, we've been able to touch the lives of thousands of not just women although I predominantly work with women in my coaching but men and women across the world to do that in doing this work. Can you?
Speaker 2:can you give some examples of what that intersection looks like, because I personally feel pretty ignorant as to what the islamic perspective is?
Speaker 1:I was going to ask the same question, by the way.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah that's it, so this will be a 101 on trauma the fundamental thing you have to understand about trauma.
Speaker 3:So trauma isn't a bad experience. Trauma isn't just something that happens to you, that sucks or is even super difficult. Trauma is specifically when something occurs that is so jarring, that is so overwhelming to your nervous system, which is a system of your body that encompasses your brain, your spinal cord, all the nerves that come in and out of it, that your brain does not have the means of processing that experience in that time. And so what it does is it essentially takes that memory and it holds it in almost like a short-term memory space where it tells your nervous system constantly react to this, because this thing was so harmful to us. We need to be constantly looking out for danger. So think of someone who was physically abused right. And now any thought around you let's say they were physically abused in their marriage, any thought around getting married again, is so overwhelming because it's like, well, marriage is the environment in which this horrible experience happened. Their brain is fixating on that right. Or somebody who gets into a car accident and doesn't want to drive. Driving causes such an intense fight or flight response why? Because their brain is saying this is where the danger happened. You're going back. That's what trauma is, and trauma healing combines two main pieces, and this is really important for people to know, because oftentimes trauma a lot of trauma experts once again will focus on one and not the other. Um, but you have to have both.
Speaker 3:One is teaching the nervous system how to stop being so reactive, not in a way that's uncompassionate, but in a way that understands. This is how the nervous system is supposed to process. We can reteach it, because that's all your brain is just patterns. It's just building new patterns. How do kids learn how? How do babies learn how to crawl? How do we learn how to speak or how to write? It's just the redundancy, right. So we teach the nervous system that that part how to kind of come out of the fight or flight or freeze or fight whatever trauma responses exist and the other part is that horrible things still happened and so we need to take that memory and tell the brain hey, stop holding in short term memory, send it to long term memory where we can look at it as a lesson.
Speaker 3:But it doesn't cause the emotional, the emotional reactivity, or the physical reactive, physiological reactivity or the physical reactivity, physiological reactivity the intersection with the sam is a very e when you know that it's very easy to see the intersection the prophet islam experienced. Basically there there's actually an um, an inventory of what the most traumatic experiences can be. He basically experienced every single one of them loss of a spouse, loss of a child, loss of their home, refugee uh, you know the experience of being a refugee, being in war on, being persecuted, religious persecution. He experienced a tremendous amount of trauma and yet, by mental health, um, kind of standards in the sense of, if it would, diagnostic standards, if I was to look at the prophet, a social stamp, if was alive, so blah, blah, blah, they would send him in front of me. We can say very confidently the prophet islam didn't have complex ptsd. He didn't have ptsc or complex ptsd. There's a difference. I won't get too much into it, other than to say that complex ptsd, um is a is a term we use when there's more ongoing, long-term trauma that we beforehand wouldn't have thought of as trauma. So, abuse from a parent, physical, you know, domestic violence in a marriage, childhood neglect, that can cause complex PTSD. He had all these experiences. They would break any normal person and yet somehow he managed to not experience experience at what was happening there.
Speaker 3:Is it just because he's a prophet? Allah said, well, the prophet is not going to get traumatized, or was he actively actually doing things through Dean, through his, in his physical actions, that prevented traumatization? Or, if he was traumatized, that helped him undo it? And the answer is the second is both. Obviously there's a baraka element.
Speaker 3:We know that the prophet islam had his literal heart purified by jibreel alayhi salam, when he was a child. There's the, the narration around that. But then the prophet islam would do some very interesting things. Um example, tahajjud, right, tahajjud. You just look at it and you're like, oh, that's a religious thing to do. He was doing it because he wants to connect with God.
Speaker 3:Actually, one way to look at salah and the fact that the Prophet peace be upon him actually would extend his tahajjud during the more difficult periods of time is the combination of the physical movement right, going to the Qur'an, going back up, going to sujood, plus the, the level of khushu that you have put you in a brainwave state that is very similar to what we see when people meditate.
Speaker 3:That combination is actually a trauma processing combination. We literally teach this to people right, not through Salma necessarily, but there's a whole class of trauma integration techniques called somatic processing, because your nervous system is what's traumatized right. Your nervous system is connected to your body. So if you can heal, if you can get your body to feel, to be safe again through those movements and if you can enter your brain into a state of that meditative state, which is a very safe place where your brain can process things without your nervous system kicking the fight or flight, kicking in, and where your brain can process things without your nervous system kicking the fight or flight, kicking in and taking over, you can process trauma.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's crazy when you when you think of it.
Speaker 1:never thought about salon this way.
Speaker 3:Yes, and that's part of why we have a goldmine in front of us. But it's not a coincidence that the Prophet, like to hadjjud, wasn't mandatory. After the five salah came, were mandated people. A lot of people don't know this. Tahajjud was previously required, it was a salah, and then afterwards it wasn't required, and yet the prophet never left it. If he missed a night, it was. It was explained to us. It was for the sake of. He didn't want the sahaba to see this as a fault because he never left it and it would burden us yeah, subhanallah.
Speaker 1:Okay, let's be more specific, since we're talking to mostly single muslims. Um, how do you see mental health issues or, specifically, trauma and challenges related to it? How do you see it manifesting for single Muslims who are struggling in this path?
Speaker 3:Oh so such a good question. I just did a weekend program on basically how do you heal trauma before marriage, specific to trauma that would affect your marriage. So I think the biggest thing is that before marriage, people are not realizing how their traumatic experiences have rewired their brain and affect the way they show up in interpersonal relationships. So complex trauma, which is different. So when, okay, a car, a big car accident, if you are, you know, in an area randomly and it was a generally safe area, then something explodes because there was a terrorist attack. Right, that's not complex trauma, that's a single event trauma If you were in a home where you were emotionally abused or physically abused or psychologically abused, that's complex trauma. It tends to happen over a longer period of time. Lots of people have experienced complex trauma, have no clue that it happened and are very ignorant to the fact of what it's done to their brain. The way it is rewired rewired your brain to think that certain things that are unsafe and damaging are normal. Okay, and so that? So that's, that's like one side of things, and for other people it has rewired it to that, to the point to that certain things that are actually normal start to feel unsafe.
Speaker 3:You're coming in with this completely different framing. What happens if a person who experienced trauma growing up maybe they had, maybe they had parents who were also very in a very unhealthy marriage screaming at each other, fighting with each other, possibly physical, you know, physical assault of one another? That is traumatic for a child by definition. There's no childhood trauma researcher that would disagree with that. We look at it and we're like, oh no, it's not a big deal. It literally changes the structure of a child's brain. We can scan their brain and see that they grow up. They meet someone who didn't experience trauma. We're up in a healthy home. Mom and dad were good with each other, they were loving, they were affirmative. Now two people are, they decide they want to get married. How do you think this person, who grew up in a very toxic family dynamic, is going to react when their spouse says, hey, I want to talk to you about something what's immediately going to come up?
Speaker 2:Shut down.
Speaker 3:For some they'll shut down, but for others they will go into into that fight or flight, right? Oh why? Because what's happening? They're not thinking up here. They're thinking up here, their emotional brain, they're thinking oh, they're not even thinking this. Actually their brain is triggering this response without their even conscious awareness.
Speaker 3:When things were talked about by my mom and dad, who are my model of marriage, fights happened, things got thrown, people got screamed at. I felt scared. I had to run to my room. My husband or my wife is asking me to do the same thing, to have a conversation. I can't take it, and then things are falling apart and then I'm getting. Then they're coming to me saying I can't have a conversation with my husband. I can't have a conversation without without freaking out or shutting down, or I get so angry over these small things, or actually I run away, I leave, I don't want to talk about it. They want to apologize. I don't want to talk about it. They want to apologize, I don't even want to have a conversation.
Speaker 3:And this trauma follows them. So you don't see it as much in your single years. Maybe you see it in the sense of if you're getting to know someone and it doesn't work out, and then you're devastated to a point that you shouldn't be devastated because you only talked to this person for two days. Right, there's like an attachment wound there, because you didn your. Your trauma didn't allow you to ever have healthy, secure attachment with someone, and so it's like that constant chasing of what you need, not even knowing that you're traversing this huge canyon, not even know how big your need is okay, so how does this relate to, since you talked about attachment?
Speaker 1:how does this relate to, since you talked about attachment.
Speaker 3:How does this relate to attachment styles? Oh, it's everything. Your attachment style is predominantly determined by the extent of security and safety that you experience as a child, which connects to the level of trauma that you experience. The insecure attachment styles anxious attachment, avoidant attachment also known as dismissive attachment and then mixed attachment, which is also known as disorganized attachment come as a result of some type of trauma. Right, and trauma has different, varying degrees. There can be a very low level of trauma and then there's obviously very extreme, like you know, certain levels of assault I won't get into. I'm sure you can imagine what. What would, what would really destroy a person? Yeah, but that's everything. It. I think a fourth, one quarter, 25% of the weekend program was dedicated just to identifying your attachment style, understanding where it comes from, how it manifests, and then how to build secure attachment. Identifying your attachment style, understanding where it comes from, how it manifests and then how to build secure attachment.
Speaker 2:Wow, that's a lot to process. I think the question that comes to mind is like, if I'm a single Muslim and I'm looking to get married, of course I want to assess these things. So what are some ways we can assess this? Is it through, maybe, phrasing a proper questions, or are there some other ways we can assess, uh, whether or not this person had some sort of traumatic childhood?
Speaker 1:Yeah, how can we spot a trauma?
Speaker 3:This is, yeah, this is a really good question. So I so I had, I had someone who um came to work with me because once I asked someone else on a different call a call completely not related to trauma a certain question. They heard that question, they had their answer and they were like, oh, I need to work on my trauma. You can ask yourself did you feel safe, secure and heard as a child, safe, secure and heard? If you didn't feel safe, there's, there's gotta be trauma there, because safety is not something we put into question unless our nervous system is responding to it. Right, did you feel safe, secure? Security for a child Looks like mom and dad are attuned. If I, if my dad leaves, I know he's coming back. My mom leaves, I know she's coming back. There might they're not. You know they're not necessarily so concerned about the finances and bills are paid, but is there food on the table? Are lights on? If I'm sick, can I trust that someone's going to do something to help me feel better or to make sure I don't end up landing in the hospital, right, and then heard, is the one that's often neglected, but did you feel like you mattered as a kid? Or were you told like stop crying, it doesn't matter, or be quiet. This is the adults talking, right? So the reason why it's so hard for people to come to terms with whether or not they had childhood trauma because it's so obnoxiously common and it is hard for us to admit as a community stupidly we have failed that we were given the golden ticket to safety, security and presence by Allah Subh'anaHu Wa Ta-A'la in his book and we completely disregarded that and decided we were going to create structures in our home that don't reflect the deen, don't reflect how the Prophet peace be upon him showed love to his wives, to his daughters, to his grandchildren, to his sahaba in the community around him. And then we wonder why people are growing up having trouble. So that's one thing you can do.
Speaker 3:One thing I did in the program, in the weekend program, because I knew people would have this question and I was like for us to get anywhere, you have to admit that you have childhood trauma and if you don't, then you don't, alhamdulillah. I created a little game where I gave them, essentially based on the research, different childhood experiences that correlate with trauma versus different childhood experiences that correlate with a healthy, safe childhood, and we gave them points. So, for example, if you ever saw your mother or your father hit your mother or your mother hit your father, that would be minus six points. If you were ever screamed at for crying, that would be like minus five points, right, because that's a level of damage that it causes to the Versus. If you saw your parents reconcile conflict and hug each other, that would be plus five points. If you saw your parents, if you were sad and you were validated by your parents instead of dismissed, that would be plus four points.
Speaker 3:And then I had them add them up at the end and it designated if you got below this amount, you have some real restructuring around your idea of love to do. If you got above a certain amount, you're good. Real restructuring around your idea of love to do. If you got above a certain amount, you're good. I don't know why you're in the program.
Speaker 1:I think if we play this game, we're going to find out that most of us are traumatized. Yeah, unfortunately, but the flip question to the question you just answered. If we are talking to somebody for the purpose of marriage. We're courting. How can we recognize red flags? How can we spot if they have trauma?
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's a really good question and the first point of answering that is to understand that if you are someone who is traumatized, your filter, your lens, is already, is already not clear, so it might act. It's very it's sometimes very difficult for someone who has trauma, who hasn't worked through their trauma yet, to identify in someone else because you're still living in the world of this is normal, right, and so now we understand there's actually statistics that show that if you grew up in certain situations so if you grew up with an alcoholic parent, or if you grew up if your parents were divorced, or if you grew up in a, in a home with domestic violence, and you are x times more likely to end up with an alcoholic, to end up in a domestic violence situation, to end up divorced. Right, it was like a three times higher, higher, like what was that? Three times higher? Like, let me see, let me find the stat for you in terms of divorce, sure, because it was a crazy number like the yeah, between, uh, increased risk anywhere between 35 to 60 60%.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 1:Is it because we attract what we're used to?
Speaker 3:Because so, two things right. You never saw the demonstration of a healthy marriage. How do you know how to do something you've never seen? If I told you, if you've never driven a car, you never saw a car and I said, jump in this vehicle and drive it down the road. Are you going to know what to do? No, of course not, absolutely not. Yeah, and so I think we created this idea around marriage and love that you'll just figure it out because love is enough. Like you'll feel so excited about them. But it's like, what if love feels unsafe? And what if all you ever learned was how to hate someone, not how to love someone? Because people saw a lot of, a lot of like.
Speaker 3:The clients have worked with their parents, were married, but that didn't mean they loved each other. Right, maybe they loved each other, like in the sense of deep down inside there was something, but they didn't demonstrate love. There wasn't respect, mutual concern for each other. There wasn't validation. There wasn't. We're a team. There wasn't. I don't. There are certain lines I don't cross. You carry that. So of course, it's gonna fail Until you do something about it, until you learn what you never knew.
Speaker 2:Yeah for sure. I feel like culture plays a big part in this too. So much Like judging by the reaction to your face. I feel like you got a lot to share on on the way culture plays into this.
Speaker 3:You're Pakistani, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm Pakistani.
Speaker 3:Okay, yeah, it's so funny when I get my like out of clients, and then my Desi clients, my Latino clients and my like East African, west African clients, and I'm just like it's wild how distinct certain issues are, the in-law issues in Desi culture.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And the contribution to like marital trauma.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 3:Blows my mind, absolutely blows my mind.
Speaker 1:More than us Arabs Way more Okay.
Speaker 3:I know sometimes we have the element of there's overstepping of boundaries, but yeah, it statistically I was, it has, it's very. I'm sure you know, zaid, as I'm, as I'm saying this like you can think of examples, but I've just seen literal times to like destroy marriages by, by in-laws or this like enforcement of like you're going to live with us and we're going to essentially tell you how to be married, and not realizing that that's just a manifestation of generational trauma.
Speaker 2:Exactly, I was just about to say that Generationally, yeah, yeah, yeah, and we just assumed for that to be the norm, right, where the girl has to move in and she's living with the in-laws and she just never, the wife never feels like it's her home, that she always feels like she's a guest in the home, and I've heard these situations come up a lot with friends and other clients. It's unfortunate yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's really rough. And I mean the cultural aspect is I forgot who I said this to, but it was like this idea of we uphold systemic oppression in our own homes for the sake of a culture in in, despite having left that country right Like you, literally up and left, because whatever issues financial issues, safety issues, better opportunities but you're not even there yet. You've transplanted that which is maintaining the system that is causing harm to people. But it's easier to lean on that than it is to lean on tawakkul or principles of Allah's pranterada.
Speaker 2:Correct.
Speaker 1:What other forms of, or rather what other challenges do you see connected to culture and cultural expectations that would exacerbate did I pronounce that right? Yeah, yeah, exacerbate trauma and mental health.
Speaker 3:Oh my gosh, I think the in-laws rank as number one. Okay, so I'll put that as I'll put that. I've seen horrific situations that I'm I was like if your parents were not involved, you would have such a beautiful marriage, you would. You guys would be so soft, like divorce is caused by that and it's it's always funny because what ends up happening is that person who oftentimes this is kind of the dynamic that usually happens. It's not always, but much of what I've seen is it's the husband's parents involving themselves and then the wife ends up being the one who calls for divorce and then it's a husband who runs to try to get her back.
Speaker 3:But it's like you didn't know how to set boundaries, you didn't realize this is happening and you got into a point where it's too late, you can't pull someone back and the caged animal finally made its way out and you're trying to ask it back into the cage. It doesn't work like that. Um, I had a dream about it. Now that I'm thinking, I had a dream about a dog that was in a cage today. So random.
Speaker 1:But no, this case you just mentioned, we literally see it with clients who got divorced because of exactly what you said, or sometimes that the husband didn't know how to stand up to his parents and just prevent that intrusiveness and marriages fail because of that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and it's sad because people are like, well, how do I prevent it? And it's like you're not going to prevent it until it's his job. That's his job. He has to learn how to do that and otherwise he will live the rest of his life knowing that that got in the way of his ability to have a healthy marriage.
Speaker 1:Hey, if you have a story to tell, we'd love to have you on here. You'll find a safe space of listeners who can understand what you're going through. Just shoot us an email with a summary of your story at info at halalmatchca. What would you say to somebody who's been struggling for so long trying to get married and started to doubt their self-worth.
Speaker 3:It's hard, it is so hard. I remember the period before I was married and how stressful it was and my husband talks about that for him what it was like, to the point that he didn't want to go to weddings because it was just felt. You just feel like I'm watching everybody else get married but I don't know when it's going to happen for me. So I never want to invalidate like the emotional toll that it can take, because it's so emphasized in our Dean, it is extremely emphasized in our individual cultures, because and because of that, it is intrinsically tied toward our self worth for better or for worse. Like it's almost inescapable. When we see people who are like I don't care if I get married, we look at them as alien because it's like how did you develop that all?
Speaker 2:right. I feel like it's more so for girls than guys. Unfortunately, like that, there's so much more pressure for girls and it gets so tied to the self-worth or for girls, yeah, and then every time you attend the wedding.
Speaker 1:So when are you getting married? When are we going to attend your wedding? So, yeah, that could actually have an effect on somebody's mental health, or is that a stretch?
Speaker 3:No, no, 100%. Yeah, it definitely can. It'll knock. It's knocked people into depression Because you feel like I mean part of.
Speaker 3:For a lot of people, what contributes to their depression is this feeling of stuckness.
Speaker 3:I can't move forward, I don't have autonomy, I don't have control, and so this kind of blends into my answer of how I, how we would respond to your question is it is so important that you understand part of marriage is divine intervention and that is a part that will never change and you don't want to change because you want a lost child to take care of this, because it's a big decision, that's one.
Speaker 3:But you still have autonomy and at any given time, if you ask yourself the question what can I do about it right now, you are going to be able to cope with the emotional toll much more easily. What can I do right now might look like putting yourself out there. It might look like working with a matchmaker. It might look like doing an app or app letting friends know it might not be any of that because you're so tired of talking, you know getting to know someone and then it falling through. It might look like you're doing your self, work, work, self-work, if you invest that time, that time of being single before you get married, investing that time in bettering yourself, thinking about how do I become a better husband, how do I become a better wife, best way you can spend your time. Because when and if Allah delivers that risk to you, do you want to be ready to receive it in a state of preparedness, empowerment, or in a state of desperation, in brokenness?
Speaker 2:That's a good point.
Speaker 1:It's a very good point yeah.
Speaker 2:Like you we were just talking about that the other day where, um, you never know where a proposal may come from, but what you can do is be prepared, exactly, exactly, and it's very important that you're constantly putting the work, whether it's self-development. You never know where a proposal may come from. But what you can do is be prepared Exactly, and it's very important that you're constantly putting the work, whether it's self-development and, you know, improving your financial situation, whatever it might be.
Speaker 1:So that when that time comes, you are ready.
Speaker 3:So people don't want to get married. They want to stay married. Like, we're so fixated on the marriage that we forget about doing the work. That stays married. Who cares if you have a?
Speaker 3:You get married and then you end up divorced in a month. Because you know you, you didn't ask the basic questions that would have let you know that this person is not a good match, or you went against your own your, your own intuition, you're like. And then you realize that a month later, because people kept pressuring, because you're in your 30s and, oh my god, you're not going to be able to have kids if you get to this age, it's like, okay, if allah writes you to experience a life without kids, whether you're married or not married, it's going to happen, right. Right, if it's because of medical issues versus it's because the person never came to make a halal, yeah, what are you going to do about that? Right, but at the very least, don't fall into something that so many women are warning you about. To say, like so many women who've experienced divorce and said don't, don't rush into it.
Speaker 1:Like be careful. Subhanallah, getting married is the easy part, staying married is the hard part. And when you were just talking before about the divine intervention, so earlier this morning we were recording an episode for our podcast about soulmates and the perspective the western perspective on soulmates versus islam, and we were trying to like find the balance between marriage being a divine intervention and Allah has a plan for you and between you putting in the effort and trying and doing your best. I think we reached a dead end. We didn't know how to phrase it, so we said we're going to record later.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know it's. You don't know how Allah is going to bring it to you, so stop focusing on that. If Allah brings it to you, that this man you never heard about to the sisters listening came and knocks on your door and he meet randomly, meets your dad at the masjid, and that's how you met your, your husband. Cool If it came because you were on an app and you were on the app for three, four, five months or a year or two and you met someone. Okay, for three, four, five months or a year or two and you met someone. Okay, you don't have that. The qadr aspect is meant for us to look at, to reflect on after the fact and say, subhanallah, how generous is my rab. Not for us to sit there and wait and be like I'm not doing anything because Allah, subhanallah, is going to drop him into my lap, because I made dua for and I'm going to have tawakkul.
Speaker 1:People have such a weird like understanding of to what good, to what good is you trust in Allah, based on all his capabilities and capacity, but you don't decide how he utilizes that capacity. That's, that's the point. So I love this. I love this Other is for you to look back on. Yeah, I love this.
Speaker 3:I think we're taking this to our podcast With your permission. Yeah, and changes. So do the work and make dua. I think we're taking this to our podcast with your permission. Go for it, yeah, and dua changes qadr. So do the work and make dua, and at least you can stand in front of Allah showing like, hey, I put an effort.
Speaker 2:Yeah, correct. Can you share any techniques for managing anxiety around the future or any uncertainty in the marriage process?
Speaker 3:Hmm, yeah. So technique number one is it's not like, it's not. My technique is to harder than the property, so it's just a P. I can't tell you how many people I came across that didn't pray it and I was like you shot yourself in the foot because Allah gave you draw insurance. That's what I call it. Istighara is dua insurance. It's decision insurance, right, istighara?
Speaker 3:If you read the dua itself for those who don't know Arabic, you read it in English you see it is literally basically you creating this uninhibited, like complete guarantee that whatever happened is going to be in your favor. So why would you let that up? Right? Scholars called the or the, the weapon of the believer. So that's a huge tool. You feel anxious. Consult with Allah through slot to this, to Hadaah, come to him with that. I think we overlook it so much. We hear it and it's just like, oh, it's like people telling me to make dhikr or make dua and it's like, yeah, whoa, what better way than to use a technique that literally shifts the metaphysical reality, just because we have a limited idea and understanding of what dua and istikharah is a dua. It's a salah. It idea and understanding of what dua and istikhara is a dua, it's a salah, it's a combination of a salah with a dua. But the point is the dua. It shifts your metaphysical reality. What else would you want?
Speaker 1:SubhanAllah. Yeah, before you move on to the next point, if I can ask you a question about istikhara? So don't like we. As Muslims, we believe that whatever happens is for the best. Whatever, whether it's whether it looks good or looks bad, it's all for your best. So how is that different from like whether you prayed istikhara or not? Isn't the best going to happen for you anyway? The best?
Speaker 3:will for the believer that you know, the prophet Esau, to some, tells us, is like the blessing of what you have. What is it? A strain, disease, a fear of a believer that you know everything is good for him? And that's not the case, except for a believer that when something good happens, they are grateful and that is good for them, and when something bad happens or difficult happens, they are patient and that is good for them. So it's not the actual action or the experience, it right. So the muslima is still a muslima, the calamity is still a calamity, but their reaction to it is gaining them reward.
Speaker 3:In a sahara, it's a different thing. It's you're asking a lot of two, two different, two different um outcomes. Either, if this thing is good for me, bring it to me and make it easy, just bring it to me, make it easy. And when you are praying for a sahara and you're asking a lot to bring the thing to, you're praying for something good. Like we don't make istikhara on bad things. We don't make istikhara on if we're going to get into a car accident. We make istikhara on marriage, on jobs, on careers, on buying a home, on starting to have children. So if this big, cool idea of an outcome is good for me, bring it so good for me, bring it so good.
Speaker 3:Guess what you just have khair in that, in in the outcome, the physical thing you can experience, and khair in the the, the way it affects your akhira. So that's a double hood and on the opposite side, if it's not good for me by allah's determination ie, it is not good for me in my dunya and my akhira, then don't just take it away. So so take it away, yes, but replace it with something better, right? So, objectively, this is something that is in dunya better and in akhira better, and make me pleased with it. So istikhara is you get the better reality physically and you get the emotional betterment as well. You're not being asked to stay patient. You're literally like you're saying, yeah, allahah, like, make me give me um, make me pleased with it subhanallah, there's a like, an aspect of psychological health even in the way you ask yes absolutely, and that's what I love about the duas, that piece, always that last bit of the draw.
Speaker 3:Um, I'm trying to remember how it goes oh, um, yeah, uh.
Speaker 1:What are the nipima?
Speaker 3:yeah, there's a different way. Actually, the, the version of the dua I learned is a little different, but the the point is the same, right? Uh, remove it from me, remove me from it and then replace it with something better and make me please. In it, it's almost like a lot is inserting this last bit of like. Don't forget that piece, piece of it, because your psychological piece with it is what's going to make you truly believe if it was good for you or not. Right, because some people are attached to things that were bad for them, but their heart is so attached to it that the khair in front of them they can't even see it, even if it's objectively better, even if everyone else can see it.
Speaker 1:I'm so focused on your answers.
Speaker 2:Honestly, I can't think of my next question so if you could leave one message for single Muslims struggling with mental health, what would that be?
Speaker 3:especially trauma. Yeah, especially, go, go find someone who can help you with that. I don't care who it is, I don't care what, like come to me, if my programs are so open, sure, but find someone. You will forever be stuck. When you say I don't know, I give up and that's a trouble with a lot of mental um illness and like what. What really is hard about it is the stuckness it creates right in in kind of trauma terminology we'd call call that freeze, put you in the trauma responsive freeze. You don't know what to do. Everything feels crashing down.
Speaker 3:One thing that I literally analyze in clients before they work with me to decide if they are going to get the opportunity to be in the program because it's not just something you apply to and you automatically get in is are you hopeful? Do you actually believe it's possible? Because if you don't believe, I'm not fighting against your disbelief. That's an internal thing you have to be willing to bring down and something about you has to believe it. Because why would you apply to something, why would you make an appointment with your therapist, want to go to your doctor, want to start reading a book or watch a podcast, if you don't believe? Who is speaking right now. Is it that true? Like that part of your soul is asking you do something that's going to be better for you in this dunya, in the akhira? That's who's speaking, but you're letting the voice of your inner critic and your fear and your your perception um, take, take over. So be willing to be hopeful.
Speaker 3:There's a a whole session in my group coaching program where all we talk about is the five qualities of depression. Right, although not all trauma, not all depression or depressive disorders is connected to trauma, trauma almost inevitably comes with depression for most people, and so, because of that, we focus on those five pieces, and so much of those five qualities that basically the qualities guarantee you will have depression until you change them is around around the way you think about things. Are you very rigid in your way of thinking? Everything's bad, everything sucks, nothing good ever happens for me. There are no good men anymore, there are no good women anymore. Is that how you're thinking or are you thinking with more flexibility?
Speaker 3:Things have happened, alhamdulillah, I survived and I'm going to try to grow from it. It didn't work out with this person or the person before them or the person before them. Let me try to change either what I'm looking for, change who I'm attracting, or try to see what's going on with me that's causing that to happen. What's the difference in outcome going to be so different, right? The person who's just like I hate, hate everyone. You're gonna end up being a toxic, horrible person. If you do get married. You're not going to be happy because you're so fixated on this limited idea you know belief around how marriages versus the other person who's constantly trying, growing and is just willing to build something beautiful from something that was so ugly.
Speaker 1:Well, one last question, since you said get help, what would you say to somebody who's just maybe feeling hesitant about reaching out because of all the cultural stigma about trauma and mental health?
Speaker 3:I'm. Sometimes I say things that I'm like I hope it doesn't sound so mean. People will come to the conclusion that they need help when they come to it, so I don't even say anything to them, because here's what ends up happening At one point you're brave enough to come to it and you're like I'm going to do it, or life is going to take your face, smash you in the ground and then you're going to come up, gas for air and be like okay, I can't do it anymore. You get to choose which one it is, so we don't even have to convince them. People are going to come to you because they realize I need to get married and what I'm trying is not working. People are going to come to me because they're gonna be like I need to heal and what I'm trying is not working.
Speaker 2:So, Sergio Leal one more question regarding trauma. So you mentioned, you talked a lot about childhood trauma and how that can kind of just leave impressions on you as you age. But there's always that one moment that can just be that spark, that trigger and what are some of those triggers that you've seen that just kind of unloads everything that they've experienced as a child.
Speaker 3:In the sense of like it triggers them to to crash, or it triggers them to be inspired.
Speaker 2:Triggers them to open up those wounds.
Speaker 3:In one, in one time, cause you can do it in a way that is, or you can do do it in one, in a way that you're shutting down and just like spiraling um, like shutting down or even spiraling yeah, oh, it's so hard because the issue is not necessarily what the thing is, um, it's about where that person's nervous system capacity is at the time that they receive it.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:Right. So in nervous system, in trauma work, there is the idea of something called the window of tolerance. It has different names. I like window of tolerance it's how much stress your nervous system can take or handle before the nervous system dysregulates or starts getting traumatized. Okay, and so someone might have a wide window of tolerance where they're handling the trauma. Um, before it the nervous system dysregulates or starts getting traumatized. And so someone might have a wide window of times where they're handling the trauma, they're managing, they're managing, they're managing, and then one thing puts them out of it. One thing, it was just that. One last thing, and it could be something so simple it could be they got sick with the cold. It could be something really bad. They're they, they end up getting a divorce right or not. I shouldn't say very bad in the sense it could be something very life altering.
Speaker 2:Right, or something that reminds them of what they experienced as a child.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean you're going to have the triggers, yes, but there's one thing that just triggers you in the sense of it throws you into a trauma response. There's another where it breaks you down, where it sends you to the worst kind of part of your nervous system.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:So that's why I was kind of distinguishing. So it's less about the thing and it's more about how much more capacity does your window of tolerance have before it just says no more, okay.
Speaker 1:Wow, I think we can talk about this for hours and hours.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And maybe in the future, if you're open to it. We'd love to have you again because just yeah this by all means wasn't enough. We need more. I think our listeners will appreciate that. Yeah, before we let you go, how can anyone contact you, connect with you?
Speaker 3:Yeah, you can find me on Instagram. So if you look up, honestly, if you look up Muslim trauma coach, I think I'm the first one that comes up. Let me, let me verify that and make everyone's life easier so they don't have to remember my name. There are very few of us who exist. Let me just do a quick look, but otherwise, um, my name, you can look up my name. Yeah, you'll find one more person named Anna who's a trauma informed coach, but my, my, my account has my face all over. Okay, like it's just, it's just my face. So, or you can look up my name. H-a-n-a. No-transcript.
Speaker 1:Okay, inshallah, we're gonna link your accounts and contact information and thank you so much. This has been enlightening and say do you have any last words?
Speaker 2:No, just thank you for coming on and I've definitely learned a lot and, yeah, definitely got to explore the idea of doing this again sometime.
Speaker 3:Inshallah, inshallah, just reach out whenever you guys are available.
Speaker 1:Thank you for your time. As-salamu alaykum.
Speaker 2:Wa-alaykum as-salam.
Speaker 1:Wa-alaykum, as-salam, wa-alaykum as-salam Wa-alaykum, as-salam Wa-alaykum, as-salam Wa-alay.