Diary of a Matchmaker

Financial Habits Every Single Should Know w/ Jesse Reitberger

• Halal Match • Episode 61

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Money talks before marriage don’t have to be cringey, they’re actually a must. We brought in Jesse Reitberger, an Islamic finance expert and founder of Canadian Islamic Wealth, to break down why it’s not about the salary number, but how that money’s made. Spoiler: halal income beats a fat paycheck every time.

Jesse drops gems like the $10K question, halal mortgage hacks, and why men need to own their provider role while recognizing the reality of dual incomes today. Plus, his top tip? Start saving now, even $25 a month can seriously change the game. Whether you’re single, engaged, or just curious, this episode is packed with straight talk and smart advice.


Get in touch with Jesse at: https://manzil.ca/wealth

jesse@manzilwealth.ca


Got a dilemma or story? The Single Muslim Hotline is here for you! We’ll play your anonymous messages in future episodes and offer real talk. Drop us a voice note 👇🏻
https://www.speakpipe.com/DiaryOfAMatchmaker

Speaker 1:

If you take one thing away from this. The money conversation is important. How much they're making is important, right, but if they're not making it in a halal way, it doesn't matter, because your life is going to suck. I'm sorry.

Speaker 2:

Assalamu alaikum, I'm Hiba.

Speaker 3:

And I'm Zaid.

Speaker 2:

You're listening to Diary of a Matchmaker.

Speaker 3:

A podcast that will take you into our world as matchmakers.

Speaker 2:

We'll share our experiences and offer advice for the single Muslim.

Speaker 3:

So let's dive in Bismillah.

Speaker 2:

Assalamu alaikum everyone. Welcome to another episode. My name is Hiba and on the other mic is my husband and co-host, zaid.

Speaker 3:

Assalamu alaikum.

Speaker 2:

Okay, guys. So I'm going to tell you a secret. When Zaid and I were talking and getting to know each other, I did not ask him how much he was making. Now, was that dumb, was that reckless, was that romantic? I really don't know. But Alhamdulillah, it worked out and today, actually, we are diving into this conversation that a lot of people feel uncomfortable to have, which is money. A lot of people feel uncomfortable to have, which is money?

Speaker 3:

Yep, because in the real world, obviously, love is more than just sharing common playlists. It's about figuring things out bills, budgeting, whether or not your future spouse thinks a credit card is free money. Today, alhamdulillah, we're joined by somebody who actually knows what he's talking about, Jesse Reitberger. He's an expert in Islamic finance in Canada. He converted to Islam in 2014 and took a deep dive into Islamic finance, earning certifications from the Ethica Institute to become both a certified and advanced Islamic finance executive. He launched Canadian Islamic Wealth in 2019 to fill a much-needed gap, which was halal investing and sharia-compliant financial planning in the Canadian market. Jesse also serves as a senior wealth advisor at Munzel, and he's been instrumental in bringing financial literacy and halal wealth management to the Muslim community across North America. He lives in Winnipeg with his wife and two sons, and when he's not working, you'll find him on the mat practicing Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu or Muay Thai. So thank you for coming on the podcast, Jesse.

Speaker 1:

Thank you guys for having me. Great to hear and yeah, I do have some thoughts on that first thing that you mentioned.

Speaker 2:

Exactly that's what I wanted to ask you. Was that like did I just get lucky? And is this the topic of finances? Is it should be on the table or are we just over-prioritizing finances and money? And if it actually should be on the table, then how should a couple go about it?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so I think there is, you know, a happy medium, right Like? It certainly doesn't need to be all about finance, but there has to be at least some level of understanding. This is, of course, my opinion that you know what the financial roles. We look at it and for the most part, the man is 100% responsible for providing for his wife, but of course, you know, with the expenses of today's society, with life these days, that isn't always entirely possible. So how do you earn some extra hasanah? By helping him out, right, as a woman, anything that you provide in the marriage financially is considered charity, right. So looking at it that way is a pretty excellent thing to do, and what I would say is that it shouldn't be all about you know the financial capabilities. There has to be other things, right Like.

Speaker 1:

You know, there's lots of people who are really well off financially, who are muslim, but you know they're taking credit card debt, they've got, you know, a bunch of interest based mortgages, they've got a business and maybe it's in, you know, alcohol or clubs or whatever the case may be, and so maybe this person's a millionaire, but they're not on their dean, right. So it's like for for a muslim sister. Yeah, maybe it's nice to to get a nice car and this and that, but you have to understand, like this, this money is not coming from halal sources, so there's no blessing in anything that's happening with you. So what I would say is that it shouldn't be completely out of the topic of conversation, but, you know, as long as you can sort of see a means for this person who is responsible for providing for you, to make a living and provide for both of you guys, I think that is kind of the way to go, right. So we know that the Prophet Muhammad basically said, like, like something for mahar was a cat, right. Like it very, very similar. You know, teaching some, some quran can be, can be part of the mahar. Like just very, very simple and basic things, and those are extremely blessed, right. So we shouldn't completely discount the simplicity of of, you know, being able to come together, but, at the same time, we also live in 2025, you know, financial burdens are a reality. So, seeing a path for both of you to work together and move forward, I think that's something that you have to discuss.

Speaker 1:

I think it's a matter of being kind of frank and open and honest, right, and I mean, I know it can be kind of uncomfortable, right, but I would say it's better to have all of that, you know, on the table right away instead of especially because we live in the West, you know it not working out going through a messy divorce. Maybe we get kind of the Western legal system involved, right, everybody ends up a little bit poorer, except for the lawyers who are involved in the divorce courts, all these other kinds of things, right. So, you know, really, just being honest with ourselves, like, hey, you know what, I want? A $50,000 meher. Oh, my God, are you out of your mind? I'm not giving you a $50,000 meher. Well, that's what I deserve.

Speaker 1:

Okay, what makes you think you deserve that? Right, like, and and, if it's true, in my opinion, if it's truly like you meet all the other aspects of, like the Dean that that they're looking for. You know, some people just say $50,000 may have because it's like, okay, they like it's just like a wall, they're putting up a wall, right. But you know, I'm pretty sure my wife had said that about previous guys. They got to come up with 20,000 and this and this and this, and then she met me and, alhamdulillah, like, we made it way more, way more simple than that, right? So it's like you gotta, you gotta, I think, have those discussions, but also understand like there there's always a little bit of wiggle room.

Speaker 3:

I'm glad you mentioned the the practice of a woman contributing to her family and how that is an act of charity, because these days I mean, let's be honest a lot of girls are out earning men and what we're seeing as matchmakers is that sometimes sisters are conflating core values with financial stability and they are thinking that well, to me, income and financial stability is very important. So sometimes we'll hear things like if he's not making 80K, then I'm not going to entertain that. And, on the other hand, how many Muslim men are actually earning that? So the question is are these standards wise or are they just simply unrealistic?

Speaker 1:

I mean, you know that's everybody's personal business. If you truly want to have a standard of like, if they're not earning a minimum of 80,000, like, okay, great. But once again I go back to okay, but what else? Right, it can't just be money, right? How are they earning the 80,000?

Speaker 1:

I know some Muslim brothers who are earning, you know, 70, 80, 90,000 a year, but they work at the bank, right? So how blessed is that wealth? Right, and you know, for it's not even a ton of money, but you know they're earning a good living, but it's. Is it halal, right? And to me, that's the most important thing is like, is the income coming into your household coming from a halal source? Right? Because if it's not, like, no matter how much you put, it, put aside, no matter how much you think there's financial stability there, trust me when I say like, this person is always going to be in debt. They work at it, like if they work at the bank. They've been trained to think that going into debt is a good idea. They've been trained to think that a mortgage is a good idea. They've been trained to think that, oh, using a credit card isn't terrible, or using a line of credit isn't a bad thing, like, even if they're Muslim and they still have these others. This is what they are told every single day that all of these things are good because they can help you buy assets and do this, do this, do this, but like a lot, and his messenger will make a war with you if you are dealing in that sort of thing and you may not see it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, sure, he's making 80k, but maybe you won't be able to have children, right? Maybe you won't be able to send them to a good school. Maybe you won't be able to buy a house. Maybe, like, you'll end up in bankruptcy, right? Maybe people get fired at the bank all the time and replace the next day. Maybe he'll lose his job, right, and all these debts that he's accumulated. Well, now, like, ok, now you got to declare bankruptcy. So you think this 80K is the be all and end all.

Speaker 1:

But you know, if you're ridden with debt, dealing in interest, have, have a life of just paycheck to paycheck payments, paycheck payments. You know, someone with making 40 grand a year, no debt, living within their means, like that might be a much more stable and peaceful life. You never know. So I would always say the first thing that you need to look for is dean, dean, like, are they on their dean? And everybody, we all have our flaws, right? Nobody's perfect, right, but having the set of standard, like if he makes 80k a year, I'm not okay.

Speaker 1:

But what about? Does he pray? Does he? Uh, does he go to the masjid? Uh, how does he treat his parents? How does he treat his brothers and sisters? How does he treat his friends? Right, there's way more to it than money. How's he going to treat you? You know what I mean and one of the other things that I see all the time people who tend to make good money. You know, know, there's a little not always, but there's a little bit of arrogance there, right? Like, oh, I'm providing, so I get to. You know, I'm going to boss you around and you know you have to do, as I say, whatever right. So it can't just be the only topic of conversation. And I would say look at how they earn their income too, because if they're not earning it in a halal way, you're going to see problems, I promise you.

Speaker 2:

I love this. Treat it as holistically and not compartmentalize, but I'm glad you spoke about debt. Now, if there's one question singles should ask each other when they're getting to know each other about finances, what should that question be? And it can't be. Do you have that like besides this question?

Speaker 1:

I would. I would be asking people like how, what, how they view money right, and like you know, there are probably tactful ways to go about that. But like just asking them kind of, okay, you know, if know, if you got, let's just say, let's just say you know, an extra 10 grand was in your account tomorrow. What are you doing with it? Right, it's like, oh well, I'm going to pay off my debt. Oh, I want to get something really nice for my mother. Right, I want to set it aside just in case. Right, I want to put it in the market and invest it in a halal way, in a halal way, you know. And how they answer that question will probably tell you. You know who they are, and I would say that, and not always, but I would say that, you know, not every answer is a bad answer. You just have to understand, kind of, where their priorities are. Like getting a gift for your mother, that's great, you know. Going out and buying a, you know, something nice for yourself? Okay, maybe you know, but would you do the same thing? Could you live with someone who does the same thing? Right, if someone's going to go and buy a Gucci purse or whatever, if they had an extra 10 grand in their, in their account, but you're the person who's going to set it aside just in case something bad happens, or, uh, you know, invested in the stock market, like you guys are very different financially, it could still work.

Speaker 1:

I, I, you know, you guys are the marriage people, I'm just the finance guy. But, um, what I would say is that, you know, know, you have to understand. Okay, if there's that gap, how are you going to make up for it? Right? Especially, like, if you're the guy, I'm the investment guy, I want to put aside savings, I want to have an emergency fund, I want to have all these things and this other, the woman. This could be the man, right, the man could be that and the woman could be the the saver, right.

Speaker 1:

But either way, like, okay, my goal is to have x amount for my kids, education and an emergency, and this and this and so, but he's never gonna save anything, or she's never gonna save anything. So how am I gonna make up that shortfall? Because they're they're not savers, right? So it could still work. But I'm just saying you either have to find it where you're both compatible financially or figure out a way that you're going to work around this, like I love them so much, I don't care if they want to spend it on a Gucci, whatever, but I'm going to make it up by you know, maybe working an extra shift or starting a business or whatever it is right. So figuring out where that's going to lead you, that's what I would say.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I'm glad you touched upon that term, financial compatibility because that's a huge topic, especially with girls, and what I hear a lot of sometimes from sisters is that it's difficult for them to foresee a marriage where the guy's earning less than them and to them, financial compatibility means that they're earning pretty much at the same level. So or he's making more right Because Islam prescribes men to be the providers. So, from working with, whether it's couples or singles, do you feel like there's an element of truth to that, where marriages are not usually more sustainable with the wife's earning more than the husband, or people just kind of have a very warped understanding of financial compatibility?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean, once again, I think it goes back to what everybody's preferences are. There are some men who would be absolutely mortified, probably myself included, if my wife was providing for me and like she's a nurse, she could if she wanted to. You know what I mean. But, like you know, it's kind of my responsibility in Islam to make sure my family is taken care of, and, alhamdulillah, allah has blessed me with the ability to do that. But we have to remember, right, khadijah was basically much wealthier than the Prophet Muhammad, sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, and she was older and all of these things right, and she was the one who provided his employment initially, right, so yet they had a beautiful marriage. Right, and we learn this from the sunnah right, that it's not a one or the other scenario. Right, and we learned this from the Sunnah right, that it's not a one or the other scenario. Right, like you could have an absolutely beautiful marriage with a person who earns more than you, right, but what did he bring to the table? Right, he brought his character, he brought his honesty, he brought his personality, he brought Islam, like all of these things right, and you know, she was the wealthier one, but she also provided him comfort, and by no means was this like lorded over him or anything like that either, right. So you know, what I think is men should certainly have the ability and should be having the intent on providing for their wife, because this is our role in Islam, right.

Speaker 1:

But if it comes to a point, well so, and I'll give you an example, there's actually this couple that I know. While his wife was in medical school, he was working like two jobs. I don't know exactly what he did, but he was working two different jobs, working really hard to put her through medical school, providing for his kids when they were small, alhamdulillah and all these different things. And then she passed her exams, became a physician and she's like OK, you're done, you're retired, I'll look after things from now on. Right, and the kids are all growing up now in university, becoming physicians and engineers and all these things themselves. You know he spends most of his time at the must-gen. He still does other things. He's got like real estate, investments and all these other things, um, but you know he he's basically not working anymore because she she's like okay, you've done enough for me, my turn, my turn to do to do this for you. And now he kind of just, you know he chills I mean I wouldn't call it chilling, but, like you know, he provided for her in this in this way and you know she felt like she would do this for him now that he's he's getting older.

Speaker 1:

So, yeah, what I would just say is that it's, it's all about how you feel about it, and I would say that, you know, don't discount someone just because they're earning less than you, right? I mean, if for the sisters who are, you know, maybe you are a physician or an engineer or a lawyer, right? Like I, one of my very closest friends, he's a librarian and his wife is a lawyer, right, they have a beautiful marriage and they have a very happy family, mashallah, right. So you just have to look at it for more than one thing, right?

Speaker 1:

It's not just money, like, look at everything holistically, the deed. You know how you guys are going to raise the family together, all of these things, because it's not like you could be super, super wealthy, you could have a guy who's earning even more than you, but he has no time to spend with you, he has no time to talk to his. You know, be a father, be any of these other kinds of things right. So, yeah, it should be the only part of the conversation. Important, but not the only thing.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely, or he could even be stingy, right.

Speaker 1:

Yeah absolutely.

Speaker 3:

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Speaker 2:

So let's say, there's this woman, she's established Mashallah, she has a good career. Maybe she even has a property under her name. And there's this guy. He has good dean, he's kind, good personality, but he's not there yet. He's not broke, but he's not even settled in his career. Maybe he just even finished school. Should she consider it, or should she be more realistic?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, again, it goes back to what's important, important to you, right? I mean I would say that again, if he's good on dean, if you can see him being, you know, a good father and a good husband, and uh, you know he's, he's maybe he's not settled in his career, but he's got an idea about how he's gonna provide for the family and, uh, you know, look after himself and how he's going to contribute, maybe not necessarily financially as much as he wants to, but you know, having that idea right, getting a sense of kind of what you really want, because you know it could be a situation where maybe he isn't quite there yet, but maybe he's entrepreneurial, he's got a really good idea for business. It could be a situation where maybe he he isn't quite there yet, but maybe he's entrepreneurial, he's got a really good idea for business. It's just starting out, it's not quite there yet, but you can see like, if this works, you know he's going to be very, very successful, right, uh, but at the end of the day, the most important thing is like, okay, is what he's doing Halal, is he earning Halal income and is he good on Deen? To me those are the most important things. Like I cannot stress enough. Is the income halal? That should be your, not. How much is he making? How much of the income is he making is halal? I can't stress this enough.

Speaker 1:

Guys, I know so many people. They work at banks. They earn hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, but they don't have any money because everything is, and maybe maybe even their income is halal. But they're taking bank loans, they're taking mortgages, they're taking lines of credit, they're doing everything in the haram system and now all their cash is going to, you know, car payment and this payment, and this payment and this payment. It's all going to riba, right. And so now they've got nothing, even if they're earning a good income. So, just like, if you take one thing away from this, the income, the money conversation is important. How much they're making is important. No-transcript.

Speaker 3:

Mashallah, I can see how passionate you are about the topic. So actually out of curiosity, was your entrance into Islam tied to your passion for finances and investments, or was there something else that attracted you to Islam? Just out of curiosity?

Speaker 1:

kind of came naturally. So, like I was, there was a friend of mine at the mosque. He basically made a bet with me. He's like look, if you can find a flaw in the Quran, I'll leave Islam right. And so I tried and I could, and so I accepted Islam. But then after I, after I was working at the, at the bank at the time I was an investment advisor and they were like Okay, go bring on, bring us clients right. And so I'm going.

Speaker 1:

I'm like in my newfound masjid, I'm talking to people. I'm like, hey, you know, I'm an investment advisor. If you guys want to talk finance, we can sit down. They're like we're not talking to you. I'm like why? They're like because everything you're doing is haram. I'm like huh, what does that of Reba? Look at what happened with Haiti. Look at what happened post-World War II. Look at what happened with Ghana, all these different things. They paid like billions upon billions of dollars in interest and like it destroyed these countries. It very well caused the Second World War and the Holocaust and all these other kind of things. So it's like, now that I know I can't unsee it and it's so, it's a very big passion of mine.

Speaker 2:

SubhanAllah, I think I feel like the topic of riba, like it's taken lightly, even though it's one of the kabair in our deen, but we as Muslims, especially because we live in the West, we don't even bother to look for alternatives.

Speaker 1:

And it's hard, right. Like I don't necessarily blame people because, like it's so hard to avoid it, right? Like, even if you know you don't take loans and you don't do this and you don't do that, like if you don't have a credit card, it's very. Like, it's so inconvenient, right. Like booking a hotel room, booking a flight, you know, staying at a hotel, like all of these things, right? Instead of that, you've got to put up like cash or $500 deposits and all these other kinds of things. Like it makes it. It makes things so much more difficult.

Speaker 1:

And some scholars have said, like look, you can take it, but you've got to pay off. Pay it off on time every single, every single month. But then there are others who like, no, it's haram, it's haram. It's haram. Like you've signed a contract saying you're willing to pay interest if you're late, right? So you know, and I'm not a scholar, so you got to decide for yourselves what, what you think is best for you and your family. But it's just one of these things like it's so easy, it's so easy to get involved in interest, especially in the West, right? So, alhamdulillah, like the guys at Manzil, they're doing everything in their power to help give Muslims a path away from it, but it's very, very hard to avoid.

Speaker 2:

Subhanallah. Even, by the way, people in Muslim countries like it's not like people in Muslim countries are mashallah, like they don't deal with Ruba at all. We just take it lightly. Unfortunately, and maybe it's lack of education, lack of I don't know emphasis in the masjids about the danger of riba. Like you said, allah said it's a war. Allah is declaring war against people dealing with riba.

Speaker 3:

I think there is certainly a level of uncomfortability, like we talked about in the beginning, and Muslim couples should definitely be having these conversations before marriage. But the question is what to cover, because finances and money is such a broad topic. So what would you say are three must discuss topics during the courting phase.

Speaker 1:

I mean to me, I like, I want to know how someone's earning their living right, like that, to me, that's number one, right? How much they're making is is less important than how they are making their wealth. Right, so like, if this person is making tons of money but they work at, you know, for a liquor and lotteries company, or they work for a weapons manufacturer, or they work at a bank, you know, and they're not doing halal finance, like I would be very, very cautious about proceeding. Right, even if they're promising you like no, no, I'll leave, I'll find something halal, like whatever, whatever they say, it's like okay, do it now, right, before we, before we start our life, before we start a family, before we have kids. Right, because what kind of example are you setting for for your children? Right, I'm earning a bunch of money, but I'm not earning it from a halal source, okay, so what's to stop, you know, your children from going into uh, you know haram things themselves? What's to stop them from going into liquor or adult entertainment or whatever else, or, or, or, or, cannabis or whatever, right? So to me, that is the most important thing how are you earning your income? And if they, if they won't tell you to me, like, okay, that's it, we're done here, right, don't move on from that, because if they won't tell you how they're earning their income, then it's probably not being earned in a in a hollow way, um, and as their future wife or their future husband, like you deserve, deserve to know. So that would be number one.

Speaker 1:

The second would be, kind of that $10,000 question what would you do if you had an extra $10,000 or however much, right, like, it doesn't have to be 10,000, but what would you do with some extra, like this amount of extra money in your account, right? And how they answer that question Are they going to put it aside? Are they going to invest it? Are they going to invest it? Are they going to buy something? Are they going to spend it? Gives you a really good sense of like, okay, how do they view money? Right, and then the last thing I would say is you know the discussion around the mehar, right? The mehar is, is a requirement, right? Um? And having that discussion kind of right away about what the expectation is, what you want as a mehar, what you're willing to to pay as a mehar for for the man, like, and you know any sort of alignment there.

Speaker 1:

Number one I cannot stress this enough is like how the person is, is earning their living, and then maybe I'd also, I'd probably like with the mehar, I'd probably talk about okay, listen, if I'm you guys, we are, we're doing everything in our power to avoid ribba in our lives, right? So, buying a house, sure, we can do it if we can find a halal way. If not, you know, we'll rent, right, um, if we, if we can't afford to buy a car, we're gonna take the bus. Oh, you know I'll. We'll ride our bikes everywhere, you know we'll run. Well, whatever you need to do, right, we'll take the public transit.

Speaker 1:

Um, because, like, having this rub in your life, trust me, like your life is going to be worse and far more stressful. Like, get, do you know how? You know how, uh, the feeling you I'm sure you guys have you had, like your professional matchmakers, but jobs in the past or whatever, if you, if you have debt, right, and this is a whole other topic in and of itself, but if you have debt, especially interest-based debt, you're like, man, I cannot afford to lose my job, I've got this payment, I've got this payment, I've got this payment. Like you're stuck, you feel trapped, right. But if you don't have any debt and you lose your job, I mean sure there's still some expenses, but but it's not going to ruin your life financially. Like you, you're still gonna, you're gonna be okay.

Speaker 1:

And there's a a sense of of I what's the word I'm looking for here? Just like a sense of safety, right, a sense of of calm, that like, okay, if something happens, I'll be okay, alhamdulillah. But if you have debt, I guarantee you the people who have death, they're like they're going to bed at night. They're like, okay, I got this, I gotta pay this, I gotta pay this. Like you don't sleep well, so just stay, stay away from it, especially because it's interest, and the prophet muhammad, sallallahu alayhi wasallam, would not pray janazah on people who had debt.

Speaker 1:

So like, really, wait, save, buy something you get for you. If you're gonna set aside fifty dollars a month, don't buy the six hundred dollar thing now. Buy it at the end of the year, right, imagine, imagine the barakah in just waiting, right, putting it aside and waiting. So Ramadan is long over, but I always use this, this analogy in Ramadan, right, like how good does that first sip of water feel At the end of a long day of fasting, right. So water, it's water, like it's everywhere, but like that first step, it makes you feel so much gratitude. So, like, amplify that feeling with whatever you want to buy. If it's a big ticket thing, amplify that feeling by setting it aside, putting in the work, and then buying it in cash so that nobody owns it except for you. And that might be impossible with housing in Canada but, like other things, you can do it.

Speaker 2:

The Prophet used to ask refuge from debt, like because, like you said, it's a huge burden and it can ruin marriages. But I'm glad you touched on the topic of housing. How can a couple, a Muslim couple, plan for buying a house without getting into debt Sorry, without getting into RIBA or mortgages?

Speaker 1:

Yeah. So it's definitely tough, especially in Canada. But there are two halal options that I'm really comfortable saying are halal. One is, of course, the Menzel halal mortgage. I'm biased, I'm team Menzel these days, but the Menzel halal Mortgage, you know you put up 20% of your income, they'll put up up to 80%, you know, as long as you qualify through their income and have a decent credit score, then you know you guys can work together. You go into partnership to buy a house and let's say you know they divided into shares, right? So each share will be a dollar and you guys will agree that you'll buy out their portion of the shares for like $1.06, as an example, or $1.05, $1.04, whatever the case may be right. And as you're buying out the shares, you become a larger percentage owner of the house. They become a smaller percentage owner until it's all done and then it's it's your house, right?

Speaker 1:

So this has been approved by major scholars in Canadaada, like mufti mirza zain beg, as well, as it's approved by aoi fi scholars, which, if you're not familiar with them, they're sort of an international body of scholars based out of bahrain who have come up with, you know, a good set of sharia standards. So this is the, the standards that we follow. And uh, and you know, most people are comfortable getting a mortgage in Halal way through the Menzel Halal Mortgage. There is another company called Ikraz. They are a competitor, but I'm never going to say that they're not Halal, because Mufti Mirza Zainbeg has also said that this product is Halal as well. So shop, you know, check out to see which one is best for you. I know there are a few others like and some others. I'm not as familiar with their process or their. You know who's approved it and whatever all these different things. But but look around, you know, shop around.

Speaker 1:

And I would say what you can do is start making a plan to get that 20% together right. So, cause that's a lot of money, especially in like Ontario, especially in Quebec, in Vancouver, humboldt and Manitoba, it's not too too bad. You know you probably only need like 80,000 to get a decent house for a down payment, right, if you go with the 20%. But make a plan right so you can use some of these tools right rsps, first time homebuyer saving accounts, tax-free saving accounts get, you know, get that money invested in a halal way so that you can get there faster, right and save on taxes while you're doing it. But the you know, with the banks, of course it'll be easier for you. You know you only need a five percent down payment, right, but again, you'll be using Riba.

Speaker 1:

Look at all the things that happen when, like, if you miss payments, right, so with a bank, if you miss payments, the interest, the debt keeps going up. Even if you've only missed it once, even if you paid it the next day, it's still your mortgage costs a little bit more, right? So? Like, these are things you've got to think about. Like, if you miss the payments, they'll take your house, sell it for a fraction of what it's worth and likely you're still going to have to keep keep paying them in some way, shape or form.

Speaker 1:

Right so like and this is where this is where interest can be extreme, like, I would say, evil. Right is because everything about it, for the most part, benefits the person lending. Right? Like they have all the leverage, all the power, all these different things. And you, if you mess up, anytime there's a like, everything goes against you, right? But in in profit based transactions, if there is a situation, of course you know, I'm until and I'm sure, across does the same, we do everything we can to minimize those risks, but, at the end of the day, like if something bad happens, like we're on the hook for it as well as you, right, and so that's why this is, you know, pure when it comes to Islamic finance.

Speaker 3:

So do you think that Muslim men need to step up financially in certain ways? Now, not just income, but habits, planning, responsibilities, mindset shifts. And also, what mindset shifts do they need to make, would you say?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so this is something that, and a lot of these are just my own personal opinions, right, but I think that all men in marriages who are planning to get married or who are married, like, understand what your responsibility is. Your wife has absolutely no obligation to provide for you or for your family period. Right, that's on you. So you need to find a way and, of course, like I say, make sure that you're doing it in a halal way, you know, understand that. Okay, like, the only way I can provide is if I'm doing this work or that work or whatever, but your job is to provide, right, so, like, let's not sugarcoat it. You need to step up, you need to find a way. And if you can't find a way, like anything that comes from right, understand that's charity. Your wife is under no obligation to help you. That's her money, right, if she does, mashallah, she's amazing. That's charity, all these things, but this is on you. What I would say is, yes, planning ahead is always a great idea, right, no matter what the circumstance. The farther ahead that you plan and it's hard to do this when you feel like you're living paycheck to paycheck, but the easier things become.

Speaker 1:

I'll give you an example. So every single year, we have the option to contribute to first-time homebuyer saving accounts and RRSPs. Both of these things are things that reduce our taxes, right? So with a first-time homebuyer saving account, you can put up to $8,000 in there per year. Homebuyer saving account you can put up to $8,000 in there per year. The way it works is that, let's just say, you earn $50,000 of income, instead of the government taxing the full 50, they'll only tax 42,000, right. So you end up saving, you know, 2000,. Maybe $3,000 in taxes, right, but $8,000 like that, that's a lot of money to come up with all at once, right. But if you start planning January 1st of 2025, and instead of putting up $8,000 all at once, maybe you're putting aside $500 a month and then at the end of the year, maybe you get the holiday bonus or whatever. Put in that extra 2000,. Boom, you've hit the goal, right. Or with an RSP same kind of thing, like you get 18% of your income per year that you can put towards it and this will reduce your taxes Once again. This can also be used as a down payment for your house, right, but putting money into this all like you have until basically the end of February of 2026, to put money into your RSP to reduce taxes for 2025.

Speaker 1:

But when we come to that point in the year, most people are like, oh, I don't have a lot of money to put into my RRSP. Yes, I understand, but if you had started planning for it last year, okay, what if you're doing 50 a month, 100 a month, 200 a month, 300 a month? Right, that'll make a huge difference in how much tax you have to pay, or you might get a bigger tax refund, right? So all of these things planning ahead, financial planning, like, yes, have have that in your mind. And if you need help mental wealth we can help you. There are other financial advisors out there that can help you as well.

Speaker 1:

And then the other part of it is mindset. I 100% agree with this in the sense that I'm a big believer in an abundance mindset. Right, allah created the universe and all it contains. Right, and there is no limit to how much risk, how much wealth, how much he can bestow upon any one of us, right? But I think the main things we have to understand is that how much we're going to receive is reflected in, you know, how we view money, how we treat money, how we earn our money, you know and be and that's not to say that you can't earn tons of money in a haram way, that's not to say that you can't, you know, do all these things right. But I think, having that mindset that there is an abundance of wealth out there for me, that all belongs to Allah and you know, if I strive, and I, you know, and I pursue excellence and I do all of these other kind of things, like, it will come right, but do that in a halal way. So that's the way I kind of view things and the way I view the world. And, you know, I think it's an important mindset to have, just because there's no limit to how much Allah can bless you with and it may not always just be money, right.

Speaker 1:

Look at how many like there's rich people who you know, extremely wealthy, people, who are, you know, suicidal and they have depression and they have, you know, health issues and all these other kinds of things. There's a video out there where someone said, okay, you know it's just some random guy on YouTube Like, okay, I will, what if I gave you $10 million but I told you, uh, you couldn't wake up tomorrow, would you take it. No, not a single person said would say yes to that, right? Uh, what if I, what if I were to give you, uh, you know, two $300,000, but you could never walk again, would you take it? No, right, so, like you're rich, you're rich because so many of these, so many of these things people come up to you with with monetary, like these monetary comparisons, right, but nobody would ever take take this deal because they'd rather be able to walk or taste sugar or, you know, run or wake up the next day or be with their family or all these other kind of things.

Speaker 2:

Hey, if you have a story to tell, we'd love to have you on here. You'll find a safe space of listeners who can understand what you're going through. Do you feel that, as an Ummah, we're becoming too materialistic and losing sight of what really matters?

Speaker 1:

Yes, I do, yes, I do. I think that, and you know, it's one of these things that there's nothing wrong with having nice things and a nice house and driving a nice car and all of these other kind of things. Right? But the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him said that we are people of the middle things. Right, but the Prophet Muhammad, sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, said that we are people of the middle path. Right, don't be too extravagant, don't be miserly, don't be you know, don't hoard your wealth, but don't spend it excessively. Right, we are people of the middle path. So, having you know, wearing a nice garment is fine, wearing a nice watch is fine, driving a nice car is fine. But if you're doing these things and you don't have the means to which a lot of people don't, okay. So now you're, you're compromising your islamic values and ethics to look a certain way. Right to drive the bmw.

Speaker 1:

I know for a fact there are a bunch of people in my community, and I'm sure other communities too, who are financing on interest Mercedes and BMWs and all these, you know, fairly fancy cars, right, but they have zero savings, they have no investments, they have no, they don't own their house. And I mean, look, I'm not saying that having this BMW is wrong, right, but taking it in Ribba is a bad thing, right? Like, if you can't afford it and you can't afford to get it in a halal way, don't get it. Right. And like trust me, your life will be better without the BMW, right? If you buy it cash, that's a different story. But if you take it on interest, trust me like, you're going to be less wealthy, I promise you.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, I feel social media has a major effect and influence. You could say, like we see things that travel and cars and whatever, and we start like comparing and we want to have it. But speaking of cars, zaid has an interesting car story, so he brought this car with him from Chicago and it was what? 2008 or what?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, 2008.

Speaker 2:

It was coming apart, like one day we would be driving and rust would fall from the car. But subhanAllah, he's like I'm not buying a car with money I don't have and alhamdulillah, now we have like a much nicer one, but it's worth it. It's a really nice feeling. You feel like you earned it. You worked for it.

Speaker 3:

For sure, but going along the vein of planning things and those conversations that couples should be having, what's your take on merging finances? Are you either for joint accounts, separate accounts, is there some kind of hybrid? What do you think has worked best in your experience?

Speaker 1:

So I can only tell you what I do and from what I see. So, like, we keep it for the most part separate, my wife and I, and the reason we do is because you know I do handle, I would say, 90% of the bills. The main things that she'll do is like daycare stuff or stuff with kids, things like that, alhamdulillah. You know she works really hard as a nurse. But you know the one thing I don't really want to and this is just my, I don't want to be. You know the one thing I don't really want to, and this is just my, I don't want to be. You know, looking into how she spends her money, right, I've kind of came to the conclusion when we were first courting each other and whatever the case may be, that you know she's, she's not really a saver right, she's safe sometimes, but not not not super, it's not super saver right. So, hamdala, like but I kind of you know she's great in every other way Like she's great on Dean, super great family values, my family really liked her, all these different things. So you know, but, hamdala, I've got a plan to kind of make all that up, where I'm setting money aside for our kids education every month and I've got some other things for, you know, our kids future, and I've got this going on for retirement and that going on for for business and you know just all these things. So, you know, would like have it.

Speaker 1:

So, personally, I don't want to be that person Like, why did you spend this money, why did you spend that money? Right? It's different if they come to you and they're like, oh yeah, and they start complaining about their finances. Then I'll be like, okay, well, take me through your day, how do you spend your money? Right. But you know, in a marriage sometimes that makes things worse than it does better.

Speaker 1:

Um, so you know, to me I would say it's it's more, it's more about personal preference. But, like my wife and I, we we do keep it separate, um, but then, on the other hand, what I would say is uh, you know, it just depends on whether or not you guys have common financial goals too, right? Sometimes it can help seeing your entire income as sort of one thing. Right, if both you have the common goal of okay, we're going to hedge in five years, right? Okay, combined collectively, we're both saving, we're both earning. You know, let's say, we've got 10,000 a month between the two of us, or 8,000, or 6,000, right, okay, let's set this amount aside for Hajj, and then the rest goes to our bills and our expenses and all these other kinds of things. So looking at all of your money for that common goal can be very, very powerful, right, but it just has to be kind of in the cards for your marriage, as they say. It has to be something that both of you are prepared to do.

Speaker 2:

Okay, let's take it back to singles. What financial habits do you think single people should have start developing to prepare them for marriage?

Speaker 1:

I think, first and foremost and this isn't just single people, this is everybody start making saving and investing a habit from day one, from yesterday, from six months ago. Start making saving and investing a habit right now, and it doesn't have to be a lot. A lot of people think and have the mindset of okay, I need to get a bunch of money together before I start investing, before I start saving, before I start setting it aside. But what I would tell you is start doing it now, right, because there's always going to be a reason to not invest and to not set money aside. I've got this bill, I've got that bill I've got. I got to say I've got to do this, I've got to do that, somebody needs help, I need to that. That is always going to be there. So if you don't prioritize it now, when you've got nothing, then when you start earning like as we get older, generally speaking, we start to earn more money. We've got more experience, we've got more professional, you know, credibility, all these other kind of things, and so with that tends to come more money and but if you don't make saving and investing a priority when you have very little, then when you have more and it can have more of an impact. You're not going to have those habits in place to benefit you or your family financially as well. So, you know, even if you're, maybe, maybe you just are, maybe you're in university or you're, you know, just finishing high school, maybe you got your first job, whatever the case may be, start making those habits now, right, maybe it's $50 a month, maybe it's $25 a month, maybe it's $25 a paycheck it doesn't have to be a lot, but do something, and do something always, right, even if you lose your job, like, still try to keep that habit of putting some money aside for yourself. And you'll find that if you start very, very small and it should feel effortless I always say this to all my clients if you've never invested before, if you've never saved before, start small, make it consistent. It should feel effortless, right, because if it feels effortless, then you're going to be able to do more than you're going to do it forever, right, and that's what. That's what I want to see. I want to see everybody starting into those habits of setting money aside. Even if you're earning a small amount of money, you can set aside a small amount of money.

Speaker 1:

And one thing I always say and this isn't necessarily the most Islamically sound advice in this personal point but put some money aside for yourself, no matter what, every paycheck, because at the end of the day, like you can't call your phone, like if you pay your phone bill, pay your phone to pay bills, right, but if something comes up and there's an emergency, you can't call Rogers or you can't call hydro, or you can't call whoever and say hey, listen, you know I just paid you $200. But I need that money back because something came up. They're gonna be like are you out of your mind? No, hang up, right. So you know, have something aside for yourself, even if it's a little bit. Have something for yourself just in case it emerges, so that you don't have to go into debt, go into a credit card, do a payday loan, any of these things, because that is that will crush you. So, yeah, get into those habits, inshallah, and do it early.

Speaker 2:

Do you recommend people who have debt to start investing, or first clear their debt and then start?

Speaker 1:

So I would say and again, this isn't the most Islamically sound advice but start investing something right and just enough so that you have something in case of an emergency, right? So I would say, you know, do like the 80-20 rule. If you've got $100 extra or $50 extra, 80% of that, put that towards debt, but 20% take that and set it aside for yourself. And this isn't because you want to stay in debt or whatever the case may be, but this is just in case something happens. I don't have to go back into debt, I don't have to deal with Uriba again, I've got some cash for myself. So that's what I would say. I know the sort of Islamic opinion would be pay off the debt, pay off the debt, pay off the debt. And I would say, yes, but we want to avoid going into debt again in the future, right, so have something there to you know, bridge that gap.

Speaker 3:

What are some halal investment strategies Muslim couples can start looking into, or someone single wants to start building for the future? Where do they even begin?

Speaker 1:

Yeah. So I mean I think the first thing and the easiest thing for everybody to do everybody should do this like when you're done listening to this podcast, go do it right away. Open up a tax-free saving account. You can get a halal, tax-free saving account with Menzil or with Wealthsimple. And then the good thing about the tax-free saving account is it can be taken care of in a halal way.

Speaker 1:

Number one and number two is your money isn't stuck right. So you can put up to seven thousand dollars a year into the tax-free saving account. Any profit you earn is tax-free and you can get that money out anytime. Right, but open that tax-free saving account, start setting money aside, even if it's a little bit. Twenty five dollars a month, fifty dollars a month try to be as consistent as you can.

Speaker 1:

And then, of course, when the money is in the tax-free saving account, if you're with Munzil or Wealthsimple or some other advisor who does things in a halal way, the money in there would get invested in a halal way. So all the profits you earn you don't have to worry about oh, is it riba, Is it in something haram? That'll be taken care of for you. So if you don't do anything else from a financial perspective and from an investment perspective. Just open up your tax-free saving account and put money in there, and what I would say to people is if all you do for the rest of your life is maximize your tax-free saving account every single year, you will be incredibly well off financially.

Speaker 2:

Okay, it sounds easy enough.

Speaker 1:

Simple, not easy.

Speaker 2:

I guess what about investment options Like where can a Muslim invest to have halal way, like halal investment?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so there are a couple options that you have. There's Wealthsimple. Again, they're a competitor of ours, so they're terrible. Don't know, I'm just kidding, but Wealthsimple does have. Wealthsimple does have, have a halal investment option. You can open up an account there. You can also open up an account with Menzel. That's the better option. We're with Team Menzel, that's the better option by Muslims for Muslims, right. But you can open up an account with Manzil, and you know you can open up a tax free savings account with Manzil. And then we have a bunch of different halal investment options. We have the Manzil halal mortgage fund. We have one vest halal ETF. We have some funds from Sharia portfolios, hlal, gold and silver funds. We have a whole bunch of different funds that have been screened by scholars and insured to be halal.

Speaker 2:

Okay, and what's your take on stocks?

Speaker 1:

Stocks can be halal. They just have to be taken care of in a halal way, right? So when you look at different stocks, it can be a bit confusing, because it's like, okay, you know, what does this company do? Oh, you know, first of all, their business, right? So the business that they're doing has to be halal, right? You can't invest in an alcohol company or a tobacco company. I've got a quiz for you, a pop quiz for you guys Do you think it's halal to invest in Boeing?

Speaker 3:

Boeing no.

Speaker 1:

They make planes right.

Speaker 3:

No.

Speaker 1:

No, but they make war planes. They make war planes, right. So a lot of people will come to me. They're like, hey, do you think I should invest in Boeing? It's like, why? Because they make planes, planes are halal, yeah, but what are those planes? Do let's? Let's take a look at some of the planes in Israel's army, right?

Speaker 1:

But we got to look, you got to look at, you got to look at these things, right? So you know, looking at things like whether or not they deal in cannabis or alcohol or gambling or tobacco or adult entertainment, all of this. There are a lot of companies that are publicly traded that deal in these things. So so you have to find out where, like you know how the stock is making its money, like where they so Apple, for example. Like they, they sell computers and software and all these other kind of things, so they could be considered a halal company to invest in, right? So figuring out where they make their money, how they make their money, and then all these things. So you could do all that work and figure it out for yourself and spend hours and hours reading charts and all these things. Or you could come to Menzel and let us do it for you. And then you, just you know you relax, You're good at marketing, I'll give you that, and you just you know you relax, You're good at marketing, I'll give you that Okay.

Speaker 3:

So yeah, let's wrap up with how anybody can reach out to you for your services.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so the best way to reach us would be you could go to menzelca backslash wealth With that. You know, we've got a team of financial advisors all across the country uh, here to help you. So we've got people in Quebec. If you're looking for help, uh, you know, and you want service in French. We got people there. We've got people in the GTA. We've got people in in Alberta Uh, I myself I'm in Manitoba. We've got a brother out in BC. So you have all these different people, depending on where you live, that can help you and set things up with you. And if you want a personal call with me, we can do that too. Jessiemanzowealthca, that's my email. That's the best way to get in touch with me and we can look at your situation. I do work with clients all across the country. So whatever you need, we're here to help you.

Speaker 2:

Cool. Inshallah, we'll share all this information in the description of the episode. And, guys, if you're serious about getting married, don't skip the money conversation. Don't make my mistake. Alhamdulillah I got lucky, but don't skip it. It's uncomfortable, but just find smart ways to go about it. And the most important thing we take from you, jesse, is just make sure the money earned is halal. It's earned in a halal way.

Speaker 3:

Of course and if your brain feels full I'm sure Hiba's brain does too You're not alone. So that was a lot of information, but hopefully gave you guys some real tools to have these conversations in your own life, whether you're courting, committed or just financially confused. And also if it did help you share with a friend who's looking to get married or just loves to spend a lot of money at costco thank you so much, jesse.

Speaker 2:

We've learned a lot, a lot to think about after we turn off the mic, inshallah. But thank you for your time and thank you, our beautiful listeners. We'll see you next time okay, just assalamu alaikum everyone.