Diary of a Matchmaker

Why Disability Is a Dealbreaker for Most People? w/ Rabia Khedr

• Halal Match • Episode 65

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What happens when love meets real honesty, deep faith, and a few assumptions that need challenging? In this episode, we speak with Rabia Khedr, a blind Muslim woman, community leader, and mother of four, whose story flips the narrative on what it means to marry with a disability. From confident conversations with her future husband to surprising acceptance from her in-laws, Rabia's journey breaks barriers and stereotypes. This episode asks you to listen a little closer, not just for inspiration, but for the assumptions you didn't know you had. 

Check out Deen Support Services at: https://www.deensupportservices.ca/
Connect with Rabia at: https://www.instagram.com/rabia.khedr?igsh=bGE1eHlmdzhrOTMy

Got a dilemma or story? The Single Muslim Hotline is here for you! We’ll play your anonymous messages in future episodes and offer real talk. Drop us a voice note 👇🏻
https://www.speakpipe.com/DiaryOfAMatchmaker

Speaker 1:

I literally was contemplating this driving to the airport here en route to Cairo, and as soon as we got off the plane, his whole family was there and I was in the middle of a bunch of people that were doing their best to try to speak English to me and all I remember is somebody took my kid, somebody took my bag, my mother-in-law took one of my hands and my father-in-law took one of my hands and my father-in-law took my other hand and walked me out of that airport and all that fear in anticipation was gone.

Speaker 2:

All right, welcome back everyone to another episode of Diary of a Matchmaker. My name is Zaid and on the other mic is my wife and co-host Hiba.

Speaker 3:

Assalamualaikum.

Speaker 2:

Today we're talking about something that honestly, doesn't get much attention, something that Hiba and I do have some personal experience with, and that is the experience of Muslims with disabilities when it comes to marriage. We all know trying to find a spouse can be difficult. There's culture, family compatibility, and then you add disability into the mix and there's even more layers. People with disabilities usually get overlooked or sometimes not even considered when it comes to marriage, and that needs to change. To help us dive into this, I'm excited to have Sister Rabia Khidr.

Speaker 2:

She is the CEO of Dean Support Services, a disability organization in Ontario that's doing incredible work. She's also the National Director of Disability Without Poverty and she's been advocating for disability rights in Canada for years. On top of that, she brings personal experience to this conversation, someone who is blind and who deeply understands what the journey looks like. So today we're talking about the realities, the challenges, the potential for both people with disabilities who are looking to get married and also for able folks who might be wondering could I, should I marry someone with a disability. So thank you for coming on to the podcast, rabia.

Speaker 1:

Well, thank you for having me Salaam.

Speaker 3:

Alaikum Walaikum Assalam, we're excited to have you, since you're a pioneer in this field, and we just learned that you have your own podcast.

Speaker 2:

So I'd love to start by asking a simple question. You're obviously a blind Muslim woman. You're a community leader, you're running a nonprofit, raising a family, married to a sighted husband, so you're doing mashallah so much. How often do people look at your life and go wait, how did you pull all that off?

Speaker 1:

I'm sure that people have a lot of questions and a lot of assumptions because you know, people stereotype. I mean. A common assumption I can tell you is if I'm not walking into a space with the titles and accolades, people write me off as just a woman who maybe had an accident and lost her sight and you know, oh, what a great husband. He's still standing by her. I mean, we've had our adventures over the years. We've been married for over 30 years now and we've been in situations of those assumptions and presumptions. We have four kids and you know it was always fun going to the obstetrician's office and I specifically remember maybe we were having I don't even know child number three or four and going in and a Muslim brother saying to my husband very clearly asking a question so when was the accident?

Speaker 1:

Now my husband could have cracked all kinds of jokes with that one, but he looked at him. He said what accident? So you know he. The assumption by this brother was, of course you wouldn't marry a blind woman by choice. There must have been an accident at some point in time.

Speaker 3:

It just goes to show the lack of education, lack of awareness, lack of even open-mindedness, like some people are close-minded and they think that everyone else should be the same way, I guess. But personally, you know, rabia, I also have a visual impairment and I can't tell you how many times I thought to myself marriage is not for me, or maybe marriage is for me, but I have to prove myself. I have to prove that I'm worthy of love and being considered for marriage. Have you ever felt the same way before?

Speaker 1:

Well, I'm 55 years old, so you're taking me back to like a long time ago. You know, during my undergrad, when we were all involved with MSA and everybody was, you know, the biggest question on everyone's mind was how do we get married? You know, and I was like the only disabled person in that mix and you know, we organized lectures on marriage because we had all this conflict going on between culture and faith and the Western context and we were trying to find ways to reconcile that. All of us at that time so me like anybody else had those thoughts. But I knew the culture and tradition that I come from, a South Asian. You know Pakistani culture. Typically the mother-in-laws pick the bride, and who would pick a girl with vision loss for their perfect boy, right?

Speaker 1:

So, um, I always thought I I didn't think marriage would happen to me in that cultural, traditional way and I wasn't about to go through that experience of somebody coming over with a quote-unquote rishta or proposal serving tea to them and they figure out I can't see, because nobody told them in advance and they walk out. I was not going to humiliate myself like that. So I wasn't going to conform to culture. I knew that. But I always thought, you know, it's probably going to be somebody who will be like totally mainstream, who will see me from, you know, the other end of the room, because we all watched those soap operas right growing up and it would be like Hollywood style and would change their faith.

Speaker 1:

For me that's what I always thought. Okay, I don't think I ever told my husband or my kids this story, but but that was kind of the assumption in my head. But you know, I was going to be this career woman, I was going to make millions and live my life. So plan A was somebody would meet me like that. Plan B was if I could genetically figure out having healthy kids and blah, blah, blah by the time I was, you know, 35 and in my prime years to have a child or not, I would make a very deliberate transactional decision, maybe to find somebody with the best of intentions. Transactional decision, maybe to find somebody with the best of intentions. But if they didn't stick around, I'd take that risk right. So Muslim identity was always important. I didn't expect things to happen in any um traditional way and I didn't expect things to happen the way things happened so how did things happen?

Speaker 1:

if we may ask, well, um, I had my husband and I had a mutual friend. Yeah, uh, that couple was also mixed culture and the you know the woman, my friend. She reached out to me, said oh, my husband has this friend, he's looking to get married. I was prepared to hook him up with a lot of my friends who were desperately looking to get married and we were actually holding an MSA marriage lecture that I was involved in planning and hosting. And so she said to me what about you? And I said well, I'm not marrying anybody who doesn't understand my vision loss. I'm not having somebody come to my home and and and you know embarrass me walk away because they realize I can't see. So they have to understand my vision loss and the added dynamic of me having siblings with disabilities, because it's not just my lived experience.

Speaker 1:

My sister has the same eye condition and between the two of us we had brothers due to a genetic fluke between my parents, with intellectual disabilities or global developmental delay. Okay, so we are a packet, take it or leave it. And she said to me well, you know, I'm gonna bring him to introduce him. So we met at u of t at a marriage lecture and the rest is history, with some bumps along the way. But you know, I put my cards on the table. He put his cards on the table, approached my parents, and my parents were shocked because they didn't think about marriage for me at that point in time. And then they started to think about it in all kinds of directions. So it was, it was a journey to get them to open their mind to somebody that wasn't the same ethnicity, wasn't the same culture.

Speaker 2:

Wow, that reminds me a lot. There's some similarities between your story and our story too, because when Hiba first messaged me, the first conversation was regarding her eye condition and just to make sure that I was understanding of that and that I was okay with that.

Speaker 3:

And uh, and we unpacked that and alhamdulillah, everything else is history because you don't want to invest your time and heart and emotions and with someone only to, just like you said, be embarrassed or humiliated.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, absolutely exactly like it says. Just like let's lay our cards on the table, let's's get to business. This is serious business.

Speaker 3:

I like this.

Speaker 2:

So do you think most Muslims know how to approach someone with a disability for marriage, or are they just scared to say the wrong thing? So they say nothing at all?

Speaker 1:

I think there's a lot of attitudinal barriers that are internalized across the board amongst Muslims, regardless of their lived experiences. I think those stereotypes are reinforced through family. I think those stereotypes are even reinforced, in fact, in the mosque when marriage is talked about, when some of our scholars or khatibs talk about marriage and highlight the qualities, especially the qualities of a woman that you should be seeking as a spouse. I specifically remember sitting in a mosque for Friday prayers. Sitting in a mosque for Friday prayers and the imam and he wasn't anybody well-known in the community was giving advice around marriage in his Friday sermon, which I think is the absolute wrong place to give that kind of advice. But that's besides the point. I won't do that talk today, but he was talking about it and I was sitting with another mom who had a child with a disability. Her child he had, like his hand was a little different, he was missing a couple of fingers and it was a little bigger. And I remember this khatib saying that you have to make sure that the spouse you pick is physically and mentally healthy and amongst a few other things. And at the end of the prayer, after we were exiting, I said to her this guy just simply said that myself and your son should never be picked as spouse, simply said that myself and your son should never be picked as Spence. And her son was, like what? Seven years old. But imagine that child hearing that message sitting there. Imagine if I wasn't married with a family sitting there hearing that message. So those attitudes are reinforced.

Speaker 1:

So how are people even going to consider somebody with a disability when, when they've never been uh shown positive role models, they've never been uh encouraged to seek out somebody with a disability? Like? It's all about objectification, it's all about, you know, the, the, the ideal hollywood bollywood picture. Years ago I did a talk on marriage and I said every mommy, no matter how ugly her boy might be and I'm just saying this like not judging anybody's looks, but just the way culture considers spouses and all this she's always looking for the perfect Dr Barbie.

Speaker 1:

You know, a South Asian guy can be very dark, but he's a guy and she's looking for the blue-eyed, blondie-looking, brown girl with a medical degree who can come to Canada and be his perfect housewife, trophy bride. She doesn't have to practice medicine that she learned all these years, as long as she can, you know, play the perfect housewife role. That's what they're seeking. So it's really Hollywood and Bollywood. So getting people to see beyond that is complicated. But Allah is the all-knowing, the all-wise, and he has chosen our matches. We also have to hang on tight to that reality of our faith that Allah picks who we live our lives with in this dunya and he brings us together, and that's what I believe happened between me and my husband. Allah, subhanahu wa ta'ala, is the master planner and he has the best of plans, alhamdulillah.

Speaker 3:

Alhamdulillah. I feel exactly what you said. It's like the best of friends, alhamdulillah, alhamdulillah. I feel exactly what you said. It's like the default is no unless, like this, person with disability stands out so much that I have to actually consider them for marriage. Like on our registration form when we take on new clients, one of the fields they have to, or the boxes they have to check is am I open to marrying someone with health limitation? And it's not even disability, it could be, I don't know, diabetes or whatever and most of them say no, like I would say 95 of them say no yeah, because immediately right off the bat, they're thinking oh, is this person going to be a burden on the relationship yeah, it's a problem.

Speaker 1:

It's a problem the default.

Speaker 3:

This is a problem exactly like I feel people overestimate how you could say how hard it is to marry someone with disability. How can we normalize it a little bit or, like, open their eyes to the strengths that this person can come with?

Speaker 1:

well, I think we're doing just that through your podcast. We're talking about the issue, so it's really about educating people, sharing success stories, showing Muslim individuals who live with disabilities, who are role models of people with or without disabilities. Because they are accomplished, they are contributing in so many ways. You know I might not be the best at cooking and cleaning and ironing my husband's clothes, but there's a lot more that I do that a woman without a disability wouldn't do.

Speaker 3:

Absolutely, absolutely.

Speaker 2:

How can someone with a disability talk about it when they're getting to know a spouse, without feeling like they're justifying their existence?

Speaker 1:

I think again, you know, if you're seeking a spouse that is religiously inclined, they should understand and appreciate the fact that Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala does not create imperfection. Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala does not make mistakes. He does not make errors. So we are not broken bodies. We are not quote unquote deformed. We are not in any way or shape damaged product. We are created as perfect beings, with and without disabilities. So if we first start with that shared belief that Allah is the most wise and he is our creator and sustainer and he has already determined who we're going to share our lives with in this dunya, then it should be easy for us to just talk about our disability experience, and I think it should be talked about right up front, openly and honestly. One of the pieces that was really important to me was also explain up front the genetics around my disability and the disabilities of my brothers.

Speaker 3:

And did your husband, like, have a lot of questions, or did he? He was?

Speaker 1:

fairly open. He was very open-minded about it, he didn't really have questions. He actually immediately recalled a distant relative of his who had vision loss, who was much older than him, who he used to scribe exams for. So you know low-tech times at Al-Azhar University or wherever his cousin studied in Egypt and he was still in high school, he used to scribe his exams. So he recalled those experiences and thought oh okay, no worries, we'll figure this out. You're open to me, I'm open to you.

Speaker 1:

It was that kind of a thing, because everybody has a story to tell and you just got to share your story wholeheartedly, without fear. There's nothing to hide, you know. I mean the weirdest line like I mentioned and and I don't know if you know, you've been into Bollywood past, but you know the Muslim empires and stuff there's a song and it's like so if there's no veil between you and God, why do we need to veil from humanity and veil or curtain like there's no secret between you and God, so why do you have to keep a secret from his creation, from human beings? And and that's how I see it really like I have nothing to fear, take it, or leave it.

Speaker 1:

Unfortunately, not most people with disabilities have the same confidence that you have, and I guess this comes with time, with experience and a lot of bumps in the road, right like I was born in a little village and I always acknowledge the fact that if I grew up in that village, my life would have been very different, that I would be washing somebody's dishes today for my next meal.

Speaker 1:

But it's this country, regardless of the bumps in the road, where I had access to education, access to a career, having a family and being involved in community. It wasn't perfect, but what I learned along the way was to fight for what's right and fight for what I need, and I have nothing to be embarrassed or ashamed about when it comes to my identity in Hawaii. And that also came side, you know, side by side with my you know journey as a Muslim and recognizing my deen, aside from my culture and, you know, figuring out that. You know I needed to accent that white cane that I carry, you know, carry but don't use very well, I rarely use with a hijab right. Go all the way, brown blind girl in a hijab right. And my line has always been, you know, I wanted the world not to see me as a blind brown woman or a brown blind woman. I wanted them to see me as Muslim first.

Speaker 3:

Something I also used to tell myself, that I'm like three minorities rolled into one a person with disability, a Muslim hijabi woman in a non-Muslim country and I'm Palestinian in a Jewish state. So I feel it gives you lots of strength. That, like it forces you to be strong and to open your heart to people, to maybe being disappointed, to being rejected, and that's okay. It makes you stronger, absolutely.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely.

Speaker 2:

I'm glad you guys touched upon this topic of questions like what questions to ask. So let's say someone is open to the idea of marrying a person with a disability, but they're not sure what questions to ask or how to ask them. So what's the line between being informed or just being too intrusive or insensitive?

Speaker 1:

There's no line, just ask. Don't assume it's the same thing. We train people I've trained hundreds and thousands of people over the years around accessibility and inclusion, and the biggest barrier is always attitudinal. And in order to, you know, even challenge those internalized assumptions that we have about disability, the best way forward is ask. There's nothing wrong with asking questions respectfully and honestly, and that's the best way to start off any conversation. When we're discussing marriage, just be honest with each other, with family, with potential people involved in the process.

Speaker 3:

Actually being asked, makes us feel seen and it's like you don't have to tippy-toe around us and it makes us feel respected right, at least that's how I feel Absolutely around us and makes us feel respected, right, at least that's how I feel Absolutely. I think, rabia, one of the misconceptions out there about disability is that it's treated as one experience, when it's in fact it's very different for different people, for different disabilities. Now, how can someone who has never been exposed to disability like approach it in a nuanced way?

Speaker 1:

Well, again, we have general values in this society and I think the younger generation today is more open and has had, if they reflect, someone that they've been exposed to with a disability, whether it was through school or through community or through family, so it's more familiar, it's less taboo if they have been brought up in a mainstream, local context in North America, so they just again can learn more, reflect on, you know, the idea of our values and how to reconcile those values within culture. Like disability in Islam it just is Right, Like if Allah is absolutely flawless. We are not flawed.

Speaker 1:

And the references to disability in the Quran are very metaphoric, they're not physiological. Allah, subhanahu wa ta'ala, is talking about the blindness of you know, the heart and the soul and the mind. He's not talking about you know the heart and the soul and the mind. He's not talking about you know the blindness of your vision. He's not talking about the physiological deafness of your hearing. He's talking about the ideological deafness to hearing what is true in terms of his existence and creation. You know Allah, Subhan Allah, is not talking about physiological references to disability. He's talking fundamentally about us not being open-minded to the truth and justice. So if we go back to the truth and justice in our traditions, then there should be no barrier toward looking at his creation. That just happens to be different. We are all unique, every one of us with or without disabilities, and what people need to understand is a disability can happen to you as well.

Speaker 3:

It's a very good point. Actually, we don't even consider it.

Speaker 1:

And I remember actually someone my mother was talking to and she said this to my mom not a Muslim woman, actually a Sikh woman, Punjabi and she married a guy that had schizophrenia. And my mother said to her did you know that he had this? And she said I knew and I agreed Because, you know, tomorrow anything can happen to anybody. I could have married somebody without anything and they could have something tomorrow. So what's meant to be is meant to be.

Speaker 3:

It's a very good way to look at it. Actually, Life is so unexpected.

Speaker 2:

I actually wanted to dive deeper into your personal journey getting married and talk more about the component of family compatibility. So when your husband showed interest in you, was there resistance from his side of the family? And, and if there was, how did you navigate that without dismissing the family completely?

Speaker 1:

Well, his family wasn't here. You know, they were happy that he's in the West and picking a Muslim that wears hijab. You know, I had my fears when we were traveling there to go visit his family for the first time. I was like, how's your family going to accept me? You know, I'm not the same ethnicity, I don't speak Arabic, I'm on top of that, you know, having at that point I had some functional vision, but not enough.

Speaker 1:

So I said, you know, and having low vision, like how are they going to take all this? And he was like you're my wife, you're the mother of my child, they're going to love you. And so I literally was contemplating this driving to the airport here en route to Cairo, and as soon as we got off the plane, his whole family was there and I was in the middle of a bunch of people that were doing their best to try to speak English to me and all I remember is somebody took my kid, somebody took my bag, my mother-in-law took one of my hands and my father-in-law took my other hand and walked me out of that airport and all that fear in anticipation was gone.

Speaker 3:

Wow, wow, sounds like a fairy tale.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it does.

Speaker 1:

And you know, I mean that was the first time I met them. The next time I met my father-in-law, he was passing away. He was very sick and I was talking to him, joking, having my sister-in-law translate to him. I said you know, baba, you need to get well so you can come to Canada and you can come and see my house. And you know my kids, they draw on the walls and you know they've discolored everything. But who cares? I can't see. And he said to my sister-in-law that she translated to me. He said to her you don't see, but you see with your heart. And I love that. That's like one of the last things that he communicated to me.

Speaker 3:

Wow.

Speaker 2:

It's amazing finding a family like that.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, yeah, it's not a given, unfortunately. But what would you say to somebody who's considering marrying a person with disability but then their family starts putting doubts in their head and like trying to make them think more realistically? If I may say, like for a lack of better term.

Speaker 1:

Well, be realistic, but put your trust in Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala, and do your istikhara and educate your family. People will come on board if you are sure of what you're doing. Like you have to be sure of your decision, and a big part of that is your faith.

Speaker 2:

You know, you shared your experience from the Muslim community earlier on and I feel like even now, we as a Muslim community we haven't really made much progress in this space and that non-Muslims are so much further ahead of us in this kind of work and just inclusion. So what are some things that we can actually learn from non-Muslims in regards to inclusion, support or just the whole stigma in relationships?

Speaker 1:

We're working on it. We're working in mainstream space and we're also working in community space. So, yes, the philosophy is there in the mainstream, but there's still a conflict with reality. That's why there's so much investment and effort made. There's more openness and maybe communication we're working through again at Dean Support Services and we have something within Dean through research, our Race and Disability Canada project, in that in our Race and Disability Canada project we are trying to work on issues of intersectionality, like for people to understand culture and disability inclusion, for people to apply principles of inclusion, diversity, equity and accessibility wholeheartedly, because the mainstream really doesn't do well when it comes to diversity and inclusion. So it's not all a bed of roses in the mainstream either. There is a lot of work to be done.

Speaker 1:

The challenge for us as a community, as Muslims, is we don't do well when it comes to collaboration. We are in that generation where really it's about the clicks and likes and just whatever we can show off, more than substance. This work has to be deep-rooted and substantive. This work has to be deep-rooted and substantive and we haven't gone beyond investing in bricks and mortar, reinventing, you know, the mosque, the school. We haven't made that full shift toward programs and services. We haven't really included people with disabilities in our institutions. We think we can do everything ourselves when it comes to our institutions. We don't collaborate. So really shifting attitudes in the community ensuring greater inclusion of people with disabilities has to be led by disabled people. Allies and supporters can be a part of it professionals, you know, families but if we ourselves are not doing that work, it's not going to bring about that deep shift that we need in terms of true inclusion and belonging for people with disabilities within the Muslim community.

Speaker 3:

So we need to be leading that movement, just like with Islamophobia, we need to be the ones leading the fight against Islamophobia.

Speaker 1:

And we have to come together as people with disabilities with our lived experience. Resources are very limited. We constantly are finding, especially in Canada. We're constantly finding global organizations trying to come here because they see a strong, lucrative donor base, but then that just spreads the pot further and further and leaves very little for us to do the work that needs to be done. People with disabilities and their families are very isolated. They are desperate. There's so much need and we're doing very little to meet that need just because of scarcity of resources and lack of collaboration.

Speaker 3:

You mentioned before something about how a sheikh in the masjid said something that was, like you could say, completely insensitive. You even mentioned that the topic of marriage and disability shouldn't be discussed in like a jum'ah khutbah. Can you please elaborate a little bit more about that, in terms of what our scholars and sheikhs are getting right? What are they getting wrong?

Speaker 1:

Well, I think they're not leveraging the power of the pulpit. They have a dedicated audience every Friday. That audience needs positive reinforcement. It's not the space that we need to preach on deep, deep topics and bring about deep shifts in understanding. So, you know, it's really about empowering people to come back and learn more and connect more. It's not the opportunity to just, you know, shift their attitude in that 20 minutes, 40 minutes, whatever that time period is. However, you know we are starting and we did this first. You know, as Muslims with disabilities, we started a khutbah campaign back in 2009 for the International Day of People with Disabilities. So we send out talking points, we spread the word locally and globally to encourage imams to just talk about disability generally, so that, you know, people feel a sense of belonging, people open their hearts and minds and we shift attitudes. But that's not to say that that's where we can talk about disability and marriage in a deep, meaningful way.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, yeah. I feel sometimes when, like people, chefs, leaders or talk about disability, they talk about it with the sense of pity. And then you mentioned, when I asked you what's the name of your podcast, you said it's the pity party. So I guess you're trying to like poke fun at what's the reality that's out there.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely, absolutely and yes, pity is reinforced constantly. We have so much work to do to shift attitudes. We offer accessibility training through DEEN. We can do accessibility audits for organizations. We also run this khutbah campaign to raise awareness and are happy to, you know, coach imams and khatibs so that their messaging is the messaging they need to be sending out, that's, you know, truly aligned with Islamic tradition of inclusion and belonging.

Speaker 1:

Going back to Surah Abisa, where, you know, rasulullah was interrupted by Ibn Maktoum and he frowned and looked away and Allah revealed verses to educate the Prophet, in order to educate us. And Ibn Maktoum was given opportunities and you know he was trusted and he was left in charge of the city of Medina in the absence of the Prophet. So, you know, accessibility, inclusion, disability-related accommodation was exemplified in so many ways at the time of the Prophet. It was, you know, addressed through Omar ibn Khattab's journey as Khalifa and supports and services were present. And you know, accommodation we see reflected right from salah. How you do salah, you know you can pray standing, if not pray sitting, pray lying down, like you can pray no matter what. Allah, subhanahu wa ta'ala, has addressed every barrier for us to engage in his worship. So accommodation is built in to Islamic tradition and inclusion is exemplified through the Prophet and how he supported and included people with disabilities. We just have to recall that and learn from it again.

Speaker 2:

I like that you mentioned shifting your mindset. Let's say, someone has never considered marrying a person with a disability before this episode. What's a better filter to use than just can this person walk, see and hear?

Speaker 1:

Wow, there are visible and invisible disabilities and you know, canadian statistics are that 27% of the population lives with a disability. And there are things that we don't consider a disability right, but they're there. Somebody could have arthritis, somebody could have you know, which progressively can result in barriers in their daily living activities. There are undiagnosed things like there's. There's lots of stuff. You just have to put your trust in Allah SWT when somebody crosses your path with a disability and you just have to be open to possibilities. Don't just put a checklist together saying absolutely not, because you know what you might deliberately say absolutely not and tomorrow something happens in your life to change.

Speaker 2:

It's like I was telling him in an episode we just did recently that you can plan all you want, but Allah is the best of planners and you just have to be. Want, but Allah is the best of planners and you just have to be prepared for when Allah presents you with the right opportunity.

Speaker 1:

I mean, how many able-bodied parents do we have out there that end up having disabled children? So it's Allah's will, yeah.

Speaker 3:

Alhamdulillah, alhamdulillah for everything you know, when you were talking about inclusion in Ardeen and how, like, if you can pray, standing pray, sitting pray, like what I see when I hear this is that you are just like anybody else. You have to pray. Just because you have a disability doesn't mean you get a pass. You have to pray, you have that responsibility and there is no better way to just make a person with disability feel more like they are just like anybody else than having the same responsibilities, praying all the Islamic responsibilities anybody else has. But I feel when somebody looks at a person with disability, all they see is their disability. They don't see anything else and it just becomes all about that. How can someone see beyond that?

Speaker 1:

Well, this is why we need to create opportunities for people with disabilities to fully participate in our community, in society, so that their abilities are showcased. Like I said for me, if I walk into a space and I'm not walking into that space as the host of the event, as the facilitator of a workshop, as the speaker, as the presenter, I too am marginalized as just that disabled woman. All my power is minimized. I have to walk into that space with power, and power comes through that level of participation. I was at a wedding party the other night actually, and I sat at a table where there was a group of people no real intros done. They were all highly educated professionals. I'm sure they made all kinds of assumptions about me being there and maybe those assumptions shifted when another woman came up to me and said oh, I am so glad to see you. It's been so long. You know you've done some incredible work that I admire. What are you doing these days? Are you still serving as commissioner with the Ontario Human Rights Commission? You know, and I'm sure some of their ears might have perked up and they start to think well, maybe this woman isn't just a disabled woman.

Speaker 1:

And remember, those stereotypes even come from people that you expect to be informed, like the worst attitudes come from doctors Right, so I can go to a doctor for whatever health issue I'm having. If they do not know me, it's like oh, you're blind, so you have no vision. Oh, I'm so sorry. And it's like, whoa, you have no idea who I am, honey, you're just seeing the hijab, you're seeing the skin color, you're seeing the vision loss. I'm coming in as a patient and you're writing me off as a nobody and I'm somebody. And that's a constant struggle, too, right, because we want to be humble and yet we are forced to brag and sell ourselves so that people don't write us off. And that's a constant challenge for me, like I always, you know, want to lowball what I do, but then there are times when I have to highlight what I do and it's just such a balancing act that I don't want to be bragging. I am not. I don't like to be that person.

Speaker 3:

But you have to prove yourself.

Speaker 1:

Yes, after all these years, I still have to prove myself. Subhanallah.

Speaker 3:

Wow, I think this is a constant theme. If we're talking about marriage, it's a constant theme. Like somebody who's divorced they have to prove themselves that they are worthy of love again. Someone who has children they have to prove themselves that they are worthy of love. Again someone who has children, they have to prove them. It's um, the. The marriage scene is, especially in our muslim community. It's really messed up.

Speaker 1:

And you add disability to that and wow absolutely, but my, you know my, my one big thing for people with disabilities out there who want to get married is know yourself, be confident, be open and actively search. Don't let people's attitudes prevent you from what is your right in this life. And if Allah has given you that right, nobody can take it away. And if he has, you know, has put somebody out there, then you need to actively do your part to find them.

Speaker 2:

That was actually going to be my next question of advice you would give to a single Muslima who's had their heart broken and just starting to doubt the idea of marriage. But yeah, that's great advice.

Speaker 3:

What about one last advice you can give an abled person to just broaden their horizon in terms of considering someone maybe with disability?

Speaker 1:

Well, again, it comes down to the same thing. You don't know what life holds tomorrow, right? Like people with vision loss, some of us are born with it. Half the student population has to wear reading glasses in grade seven in this country, or something like that. Right? As you age, in your older years, as seniors, vision loss is a prevalent reality, right? At least 25% of seniors start experiencing vision loss, start experiencing vision loss. So anything can happen over the course of your life. You can have an accident, an illness, an injury. Do you not want your spouse to stand by you through that? Do you not want to pick somebody that you can trust will be there no matter what? You have to find more things in common to build a marriage on. You have to have shared values, shared beliefs.

Speaker 3:

And think about what you can bring to each other, not what you think is absent. I love this.

Speaker 1:

That's a great mic drop no-transcript to Dean Support Services and join some of our peer networks and learn from one another. Like the best of teachers are ourselves as role models to each other as people with disabilities. So we have a network of people with vision loss. We have a network of people with mobility related disabilities. We have a network of caregivers. These topics are talked about in those spaces, so please check us out at deansupportservicesca. I'm also, you know, on social media and all over the place and happy to connect and talk when I can to people. I would encourage us working together, Hibban Zayed, to see how we can make Halal Match accessible to people with disabilities more by helping shift attitudes in our society and in our community, in our society and in our community. So always happy to explore possibilities and we have to continue to raise awareness and educate our broader community.

Speaker 3:

Absolutely Personally. I feel I'm not just trying to be nice I'm sure you've heard it many times before, but I do have to say it I feel you are a source of inspiration. Inspiration to many people, not just for people with disabilities, and I'm really honored that we got the chance to talk to you and have you on our podcast and I am always excited to meet incredible people with disabilities doing incredible things like you.

Speaker 1:

Hiba, Thank you. And Zaid, I love what you guys are doing. I was so excited to meet you when we met and I hope we find ways to work together in the future, so thank you so much for having me on this podcast.

Speaker 3:

Thank you. Thank you so much for your time and knowledge. Thank you to our beautiful listeners and, inshallah, we'll see you on the next one.

Speaker 2:

All right. As-salamu alaykum.