Diary of a Matchmaker
Getting married is tough for the vast majority of Muslims in the West. We know because we’ve been there. My (Zaid) journey spanned nearly nine years. It was filled with rejections and self-doubt. While I (Hiba) didn't know there was a journey to be on in the first place. After we got married we decided to create something different to help single Muslims complete their deen. And so our matchmaking service Halal Match was born.
After a few years of interviewing singles, a friend suggested we journal our stories. We tweaked that idea and turned it into a podcast. In ‘Diary of a Matchmaker’ we’ll take you through this unfamiliar world of matchmaking. We’ll share our stories, experiences, and much more. So say Bismillah and tune in.
Do you have a story to share? Email us at: info@halalmatch.ca
Find us on:
Website: https://halalmatch.ca/
Youtube: https://shorturl.at/ywE8N
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/halalmatch.ca/
The Compatibility Challenge on Amazon: https://tinyurl.com/mtdeefsh
#muslimmarriage #muslimpodcast #islamicmarriage #singlemuslim #muslimcouple
Diary of a Matchmaker
Awkward Talks: Childbirth Before Marriage
Childbirth talk when you’re single? Awkward. “Not for public discussion”? Maybe. “Only for women”? Definitely what most people think. But here’s the truth: understanding this journey before marriage could transform your future relationship. In this episode, we chat with certified doula Hebaa Rizeq about why pregnancy prep isn’t just a “married women’s issue.” From faith-meets-science insights to the overlooked role of men in birth, this conversation breaks taboos in the best way. If you’re single, curious, and maybe a little skeptical, this one’s for you.
If something we said made you think, laugh, or feel seen, leave us a rating and review! It helps more people find the show. And hey, if you know someone who needs to hear this episode, send it their way. Sharing is caring!
Assalamu alaikum, I'm Hiba.
Speaker 2:And I'm Zaid.
Speaker 1:You're listening to Diary of a Matchmaker.
Speaker 2:A podcast that will take you into our world as matchmakers.
Speaker 1:We'll share our experiences and offer advice for the single Muslim.
Speaker 2:So let's dive in. Bismillah, assalamu alaikum everyone, welcome to another episode. I'm Zaid and I'm Hiba. And today we're excited to have a special guest. Hiba Riz is a certified doula, childbirth educator and pre-slash postnatal fitness coach. She is a mother of three mashallah and helps women through every stage of motherhood. Hiba takes an Islamic as well as evidence-based approach to her work, so thank you for coming on the podcast.
Speaker 3:Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2:One of the things you believe strongly in, based on our conversation with you, is that this topic of pregnancy, childbirth, is something that should be discussed prior to marriage. So to a single Muslim listening right now, who's probably in their 20s, probably not even thinking about this, why is this important?
Speaker 3:It's so important because, you know, I'm pretty sure, in all the cultures we're always told to not talk about this and, unfortunately, when it does happen, we don't know where to go or who to turn to. It's very stigmatized. And one thing I always like to tell people is that if you were to climb Mount Everest, would you just go into it without training, without the proper knowledge about what to do, how to do it? How do you train for it? What if there's complications?
Speaker 3:And it's not like how you see in the movies, like people are just like yeah, I'm gonna climb Mount Everest and it's gonna be amazing, and then you know, it's very cinematic in that sense, and I feel like childbirth is also portrayed in the same sense, like it's okay, yeah, we're going to have a baby, yay, it's going to be amazing. And like Alhamdulillah, inshallah, it will be. But we have to understand that there will like sometimes the inevitable happens and we need to prepare ourselves for if it does, when it does, and also in the west, birth is very medicalized, so we have to come back to the sense of our creator and what he created and how to overcome the medical segmentation as well so you chose like a pretty unusual career path for yourself a doula out of all professions.
Speaker 1:What exactly does a doula do, and how is a doula different from a midwife or an OB?
Speaker 3:So doulas are not trained as medical professionals, so we don't have the license to do any like blood work or exams for the mom or, you know, helping her deliver her baby. We're not licensed for that.
Speaker 3:So we usually work alongside a professional, either a midwife or an ob gyn, or sometimes there's traditional birth midwives as well. So we try to give mom all the information that she needs pertaining to her pregnancy specifically, just so we don't overwhelm her with certain things that are not for her specifically. So we give her the tools, we give her all the tools that she needs and we say, hey, if something happens, go look inside your toolbox that we gave you and try to use that for yourself. So we don't make any decisions on her behalf or on her baby's behalf unless she gives us permission to. We don't make any decisions on her behalf or on her baby's behalf unless she gives us permission to. Um, but yeah, like we have to give her all the knowledge that she can possibly know for her pregnancy and then, when it comes time to make decisions for herself, she has that empowerment within her to feel like, okay, I can make these decisions on my own and I can do it confidently because I have the knowledge to do so.
Speaker 1:So like doctors, aren't like pushing procedures on her and employing her.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was just about to get to that you act as essentially the middle person, because the mother is probably overwhelmed, can't really process a lot of the decisions that need to be made. So you just act as the middle person, right, yeah, okay, all right, great. So, from your experience working with a muslim couple, what are some of the common misconceptions, uh, people have about pregnancy or birth when they come into it for the first time?
Speaker 3:oh my gosh, there's so many subhanallah, and that's. It's unfortunate that there is so many, because if you, um, go to the non-muslims and majority of them have an idea of like, yes, I'm there for my partner 100% of the way, I'm not just there to have fun and then, when it comes time to have her baby, I'm not gonna, you know, be involved at all. So, yeah, that's one thing I always see is like the man feels like it's shameful to be there with his wife when she's having her baby. They feel like it's just like a woman thing, like, oh, this is just for women and, trust me, like, because I'm half palestinian, like I'm palestinian and my husband's side is indian, I see, in both cultures, honestly, and it's just like, um, they feel like the man shouldn't be involved at all and that's like the biggest problem, because a woman needs her spouse there. Um, obviously, if there are circumstances where he can't be there, then it's different, but I personally believe that it brings the bond closer when the spouse is there with his wife.
Speaker 1:Okay, what other kinds of misconceptions people have, whether it's women or men? Yeah, Let it all out, let it all out. It feels like a therapy session.
Speaker 3:Let it all out, let it all out. It feels like a therapy session. So with women, the biggest thing is that they think they just have to listen to the doctors all the time. If a medical professional is telling them to do something, then they have to do it. And we feel like in the West we lose that sense of t, lose that sense of, we don't have that full trust in Allah, like yes, something happens, I make a decision and then the rest is in Allah's hands. Like for us women. We believe okay, if a doctor is telling us something. Like we have to listen to the doctor and it really makes us feel out of touch with our bodies and our autonomy and like what we're able to do for ourselves because they have this authority, that uh yeah, that gown they wear and and the degrees they have yes, yeah, doctors will shove that down your throat, like they will tell you I'm a doctor, I know what I'm doing.
Speaker 3:I'm not gonna say all doctors, um, because sometimes midwives are the same way. They will take, yes, they will take that number of, like. I've been doing this for 20 plus years.
Speaker 1:You need to listen to me and you know, again, like I've been working as a doula for five years, so I I see it all the time, unfortunately, yeah, um, how can, how can a woman like in that situation know if she should listen let's say she doesn't have a doula If she should listen to the doctor, or listen to her gut feeling or her heart?
Speaker 3:It's really hard to do that if you don't have the knowledge. So even if I've had students who've taken my childbirth education classes and they didn't hire me as their doula or didn't have a doula and they were able to make decisions on their own, and that's because they had their partner with them, they had their husband with them to also take the classes as well, so that he also understands what's happening and he can be there for her and be like okay, maybe we need to discuss what's happening before we take on a decision.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's a good idea.
Speaker 2:Yeah, wow. So that's a good thing about men and just having husbands involved in the process. So what role can or should a husband play in pregnancy and birth, and how can men mentally prepare themselves to be that supportive?
Speaker 1:Even when the man's still single, like what can he do at this stage?
Speaker 3:He should understand that a woman is going through a lot. It's not just oh, every woman has a baby, every woman is pregnant. You know this happens to everybody. It's not especially like if a woman has a baby. Every woman is pregnant. You know this happens to everybody. It's not especially like if a woman is complaining of like pain or she's not comfortable, whatever it may be, and if the man is just like well, you're not the only woman in the world that's ever been pregnant. You're not the only woman in the world that's ever had a baby before.
Speaker 2:So you hear some of these things.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, so, like, everything that I'm saying is everything that I've heard before, so it's not just coming out of thin air, unfortunately, but alhamdulillah, like Allah gave us these types of things so that we can talk about it openly, and so, inshallah, we can reach the right people.
Speaker 2:So, given you do this work, of course, through an Islamic lens, give me a small taste of what that looks like, like you know, a Muslim doula versus a non-muslim doula, for example yeah.
Speaker 3:So a muslim doula will be there for you to remember allah in every stage. You know um to remind you that allah is with you with everything. Everything happens by the will of allah. And um also just there to help you say your favorite da'ats or you know whatever surah you like. We sit there and we recite together. We're always glorifying Allah, like that's our main focal point.
Speaker 3:It's like, even if things don't go the way that we want, we remember that he's the best of planners. We plan, we plan, but he's the ultimate best of planners. So I feel like with it, yes, you may have a non-Muslim doula who understands these things, but it's that spiritual connection that you have with a Muslim doula, like this doula is actually saying these things because she truly believes it. And if a non-Muslim doula was saying these things, if she truly believed it, then she would have been a Muslim herself, right? So it's just that big. It's a really big difference in my, my opinion, for just to have that spiritual connection, but in terms of like knowledge and coaching, the coaching itself, is it similar?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, so we all go through the same process, I'm pretty sure, with all different organizations. We all kind of so. I'm certified through Amani Birth, and then there's also like Doula Canada, and there's other organizations as well. But from what I've seen is that they give us the same tools within the same bracket. Almost depends on how far you want to go with your education, but, yeah, pretty much within the same category.
Speaker 1:Yeah are there? This is just a question that just occurred to me. Are there, like you know how there's, like um a tibb al-nabawi, like a prophetic medicine. Is there something similar when it comes to pregnancy and birth?
Speaker 3:yeah, so there's uh always different type of homeopathic medications, um, especially within, like thenah for pregnancy, labor, birth, postpartum even. It just depends on who you talk to and who has the knowledge to help you with it. Then you could always find something inshallah.
Speaker 2:I also want to mention you're more knowledgeable about this than I am the topic of pregnancy is mentioned in the Quran.
Speaker 1:We were just talking about this multiple times. I know you mentioned the story of Maryam multiple times. What can we extrapolate?
Speaker 3:from that and implement Again with childbirth education.
Speaker 3:This is actually one of the topics we talked about Maryam and how the way she was giving birth correlates with how lots of organizations that are non-Muslim say that we should be giving birth as well.
Speaker 3:So she was upright and she was hanging off of the palm tree and she was shaking it.
Speaker 3:So there's different methods that we use as doulas to have the mom standing upright as she's giving birth, and how it's actually more beneficial, um, to her rather than laying down in supine position. So, yes, even like lots of like uh, science professionals, they come up with like these things like oh, did you guys know that it's actually beneficial for a woman to be standing up as opposed to the supine position when she's giving birth? Yes, so that's one thing, and then also, um, another thing we talk about a lot is dates, eating dates during your labor and how it gives you the energy, because Allah commanded Maryam, alayhi salam, to shake the date of the palm tree and then the dates will fall down and she'll eat it. So science actually came up with another study saying how it's beneficial for women to eat dates during their labor Because it gives them the energy and the oxytocin Wow, oxytocin and dates. Yes, sub the energy and the oxytocin wow, oxytocin and dates. Yes, subhanallah, no way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and like it's like, of course, allah knew that, of course, allah commanded her to eat from it, so, and I also know that dates are good for postpartum right yeah, yeah, they're good.
Speaker 3:They're good towards the end of pregnancy, during your labor and birth and postpartum and early pregnancy. Is it good as well? Or Um, I, I personally say to try to stay away from it, just because it does have the oxytocin in it and that's what you need to have your baby, so too much of it inside of your body and it's because it's a warming fruit and it can really internally warm your body. So they're like again, there are certain foods and things like the prophetic, like sunnah medications and stuff like that that are recommended during different stages of your pregnancy just because of the effects it has internally in your body okay, so a lot of people are looking for like strong bonds in their marriage and they want to have intentional or mindful marriage, and same thing with pregnancy, I guess.
Speaker 1:So how do you see like strong couples couples who are so close and connected as opposed to ones who are not that much? How do you see like strong couples couples who are so close and connected as opposed to ones who are not that much? How do you see that manifest in the time of childbirth?
Speaker 3:yeah, so um subhanallah. The men that I see, um that actually partake in the childbirth education classes with their wives, that are actually invested in it and not just like, oh, I have to be here because she begged me to be here with her. But they have to understand, like it's not, it's not, the fun part is over. Allah is commanding you to be the father of this child, so you have to take on that role, and the reason I am so heavily on that is because, not only because of the bond it creates, but studies show that men can also develop postpartum depression, as well as anxiety or any sort of mood disorders, because, um, they're obviously becoming a father. It's a lot on them, um, and the women have to understand that it's a big role.
Speaker 3:Like, yes, you're are, you are going through pregnancy, labor, birth, everything, but he's also becoming a father at the same time. Like this is like, no matter how many children you have, um, every time a baby is born, he's becoming a again, as well as you becoming a mother again. So if you, if one person, is off, then it's going to be hard to bond together and it's going to create friction between you two. So I feel like men also need to be in touch with their emotions more, not saying to like be like a woman, like oh my God you know, but they just be like, be like, okay, you know what I'm feeling this certain way and I need to address it, and it's okay for me to talk about it, like my wife is not going to look down upon me of being less than a man for talking about emotions.
Speaker 2:Um, so, just being open and having communication throughout your, whatever it is, it's going to create a strong bond, inshallah so we're talking a little bit about the medical perspective, and so I want to kind of harp on that a bit. What, what do you wish every muslim woman knew before getting pregnant, especially in terms of health, body literacy, even fertility?
Speaker 3:yeah. So, like I said in the beginning, um, to prepare your body for anything. Fertility, you know, whatever it is, you need to prepare yourself. It's not it's like climbing mount whatever it is, you need to prepare yourself. It's not it's like climbing Mount Everest. Okay, like, you need to work on your nutrition, you need to work on your exercise. I'm not telling you to, like you know, do these crazy diet trends or try these crazy supplements that you know nothing about. Or go to the gym and start, you know, lifting like 500 pounds or something. Work slowly. It's okay to start off slowly, um, but just know that your body is an amana, like I'm a like.
Speaker 3:This is something I say as a fitness coach all the time.
Speaker 3:Allah gave us these bodies as a trust, um, and when we say inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi raji'un, it's not just our souls going back to allah, it's our entire being. Like allah is going to look at our bodies that he gave us and be like what did you do with this? I gave this to you as a trust and I expected you to take care of it. You know, and it's not just the outer look, it's our internal organs, everything, like when we have to think about every little thing that we have control over, and Allah is going to ask us about that. So, starting from even before you get married, okay, you need to focus on proper nutrition. We live in a life where we're so privileged to eat whatever we want, but yet we still choose things that are just like going to destroy our bodies internally. Not saying I'm perfect, like I have that problem as well, sometimes like we indulge, which is fine, but again like we have to really focus on the types of things that we're eating and consuming.
Speaker 1:Well, that's scary. That's just the idea that we're going to be asked about. You never know, Maybe Allah is going to ask us about every bite we ever took, right yeah yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:I want to talk a little bit about fears, Because of course, fear is a big thing, both with men and women more so women, I'm assuming and that you know it's scary, Like you said, you know the whole process is like over medicalized. So what is a more holistic, or can you talk us through a more holistic empowered birth experience and what that looks like, and how culture I mean you touched on this a little bit in the beginning, but how culture is going back- yeah.
Speaker 3:So, like I said, um, it's always going back to allah, always understanding that allah is not going to give us something that we can't handle. And the biggest thing is that we see it all over social media, we see it in movies, where childbirth is just like this unbearable thing where a woman is not relaxed until she takes an epidural or she takes medication Not saying that you shouldn't, because medications are life-saving procedures which, again, like you, have to have the knowledge to understand when and how to take it, but just understanding the main thing is that Allah is entrusting me to deliver this child because this is his child, like Allah gave this to me. You know, it's not just something that I created on my own. This is from Allah. So it's always having that focal point of doing this for the sake of Allah. You're not doing this for anybody, but for Allah. So, again, like when you have it, I think of it as a triangle all the time. So it's you, your baby and then Allah. Allah is always at the top.
Speaker 3:So when you have that mindset that Allah is not punishing me to go through this pain because sometimes lots of cultures say that it's a punishment for women to have babies it's a punishment from Allah.
Speaker 3:Allah is punishing you for going through this. I mean, I've heard it, not personally, but through my clients. So it's lots of mental work as well, because when we grow up, thinking these things all the time, it's just like wow, like it's true, and then we prepare ourselves for the worst. So just always remembering that you know Allah is putting me through this because he wants me to, he wants my sins to be forgiven or he trusts me to have this baby, and you know he's pleased with me. Like if Allah wasn't pleased with me, he wouldn't let me bear a child and be in this situation. And I always tell moms that Allah is choosing you to be in the same situation as Maryam alayhi salam. So when we think of that, we're just like, well, this is exactly what she went through and this is what Allah talks about in the Quran. He's also kind of reiterating that and speaking to me as well.
Speaker 1:SubhanAllah. When you put Allah in the center of everything, it just reframes the whole mindset. It makes everything easier. Zaid, you mentioned something about fertility and I just wanted to ask you. I know you work with women who are already pregnant, like alhamdulillah, but do you have any knowledge about like fertility problems in the Muslim community? Is it common? Is there any kind of percentage or studies?
Speaker 3:yeah, so there actually are fertility doulas as well, so there are doulas that help you with fertility and they are Muslimlim. So, um, if you guys ever need contacts, I can hook you up, um, or I can just give you the link to share with your um, your viewers as well. Inshallah, um. But yeah, like there are these things that exist and it's just upon us to actually look for it and think. And the thing is like people think, um, it's like a hoax or it's like a waste of time and money. It's because nobody really talks about it. But if you do talk to people who did have, like, a fertility doula, then they can tell you all the benefits that they've reaped from having one okay and is it?
Speaker 1:is it a common problem in the muslim community?
Speaker 3:uh, I, from what I know, um, I don't have any percentages or anything, but there are times where I do talk to women. They're just like I I can't get pregnant, or my husband is having issues. We don't know what to do and more often times than not, they take the medical route. Um, just because it's, it's there, it's whatever. Okay, fertility issues, ivf like it always goes hand in hand, right, um, but again, like people don't know that a Muslim fertility doula actually exists.
Speaker 1:And is there a way for people who are not, like, married yet to prepare or prevent these types of problems? Yeah, so with women.
Speaker 3:I mean men and women. You can take blood tests, right, and then it can show you your levels of hormones, what needs to be worked on if you're doing okay and anything of that sense. But then again it's just really preparing yourself physically, mentally and emotionally. So when I say I know we talked about consumption of, like what you're eating, but another thing I always tell people is that our eyes, ears and mind are also consuming things. So it's not just what we're physically eating. So if we're watching something or reading something or just listening to something, like, our eyes are consuming it, our ears are consuming it, our mind is consuming it and it's going. We need to feed those things better things as well.
Speaker 2:You mentioned epidural before. For those who don't know what is an epidural, how does it kind of play out during the process, and are you for it or against it?
Speaker 3:failing to progress is what they say. It's called FTP failing to progress. But us doulas we like to call it failing to be patient, because they're just not patient with the whole process. That's like a whole nother topic.
Speaker 3:But the thing is I'm not for or against any medications. Like I believe, everything is sent down, like Allah gave us these tools for a reason and, like I said, certain medications can be life-saving, but it's up to us to not abuse it, like, for example, tylenol. Okay, if we have like a small little headache, there are different ways to alleviate it. But if it's something that's extremely major and then, like, tylenol is available, I'm not going to say, okay, you know what? No, don't take it at all. No, it's there. If you like to take it, then go ahead, as long as we're not abusing it.
Speaker 3:Same thing for epidural.
Speaker 3:Epidural is basically this really long needle that goes into the mom's spine and it drugs her and it numbs the lower half so that she can't feel the contractions or the pain as much, and it's also often paired with fentanyl.
Speaker 3:So you know, I give moms the knowledge about epidural just so that they can make the decision when the time comes. There's also pitocin, which is the synthetic form of oxytocin, which I was talking about before, like that's what we need in order to have our babies, like oxytocin is the main thing that helps us deliver our babies. So, yeah, they give you the synthetic form if they see that you're quote unquote failing to progress or like failing to be patient, but then again like it can have its benefits. So, yeah, it's just very important to understand all the types of medications that they possibly can give you during your pregnancy, especially your labor and your birth, and as well as postpartum, because even after you have your baby, they try to push oxytocin or pitocin onto you so that you can deliver your placenta faster oh okay, so it doesn't end with childbirth?
Speaker 1:no unfortunately. Unfortunately sometimes but and do these medications? I assume they come with risks, right?
Speaker 3:oh yeah, so everything, everything has. So there's this acronym called brain that we like to use. So um b, benefits are risks. I intention a, um, ask, like ask questions, and then or whatever I know I messed it up and then a and then n is now no or never and like so you take that acronym and you're like okay, what are the benefits, what are the risks, what is the intention of the information that I have? What are the alternatives? What if I ask a question? And? And what if I say now no or never? And like you have to go through that list. Either you can write it down or you can just ask it out loud and ask yourself or your partner and then make decisions based off of that. Okay, Wow.
Speaker 3:What to consider online. Yeah, it's not something that you just see online. It's like, oh yeah, I'm going to have my baby today there. Yeah, it's not something that you just see online. It's like, oh yeah, I'm going to have my baby today.
Speaker 1:There's a lot that goes behind it. Okay, how do like the family, the bigger family? What kind of role can they play? Should they be involved like the mom, the sister, other in-law, or like this is more of a private moment thing?
Speaker 3:No, definitely have a village. It takes a village. It definitely takes a village, like if you don't have one and if you don't really have that connection with your family. You need to make your own village, whether it's online or in person at the masjid, whatever it is, you need to carefully select those types of people that are going to be for you during that journey, because it has such an impact more of an impact than you will ever imagine Because when you're in labor, you're starting to start to remember oh my God, this person said this to me, I remember they said that to me and everything just starts flooding, flooding back to you, and especially how certain people treated you. You'll never, ever forget that, never. Yeah, so they say you should, if you want to have a good relationship with a mom after she's had a baby, treat her well during her pregnancy, labor and birth, because she'll never forget it and it's true, you'll never forget it, wow.
Speaker 1:Okay, all our male listeners out there, treat her well when you get married.
Speaker 3:Like there's times where I remember something, husband. I'm like, yeah, I remember, um, I wanted something and you said no. I was like I still remember that. Like I, like he was like I don't remember that at all. I'm like, yeah, I wanted fries and you told me it was too late at night and you went back to sleep and I stayed up at night crying and he was like I, I don't even remember any of that that's good.
Speaker 2:You brought that up food. So a big thing that comes up that I hear a lot of are random hunger cravings. Right, like women just crave the most random thing. Have you seen a lot of that? Did you kind of go through that like just craving the most random?
Speaker 1:stuff. What are the craziest things you've ever, ever heard of?
Speaker 3:I would eat a poutine with watermelon no way like mixed together. Yeah, that was like my biggest thing, so. But the thing is about cravings is that sometimes it can be a diagnosis for deficiencies. So sometimes women crave chalk, or they crave cardboard, or they crave cigarettes, even though they've never smoked before. They've never smoked before and it can possibly be again like a diagnosis, because your body is craving something within that, or the taste of something that is similar to a mineral or a vitamin, whatever it is, and that can possibly be because you're deficient in it and your body is like craving it. But yeah, if women are craving like random things, like cookies, cookies inside of a burger I've seen that before um oh yeah, like it's just, it's something like now that I think about, like it's so disgusting. But during my pregnancy I'm like, oh my god, I needed that, like it's something that I really needed yeah, okay, I've heard of peanut butter and pickles.
Speaker 3:Yes, yeah, so like again, like, because, um, our blood volume increases by 50 when we're pregnant, um, so we're obviously like moving, our heart rate is up and we're constantly like in this, like like, uh, we're sweating a lot, so our body naturally feels like it needs to restore those electrolytes. So we go for pickles or we go for, like, sour things, subhanallah. So, again, like it's, it all correlates somehow.
Speaker 2:Amazing, it's amazing yeah, um, so let's say somebody's looking to get married. Are there some, without like making the hoarding fees offered? What is? Just some basic questions. A guy can ask a match in order to kind of cover that that topic of childbirth and labor without just making the person feel uncomfortable yeah, that's a good question.
Speaker 3:Um, so what you can do, instead of asking them directly, um, you can ask, like, what is it like in your family dynamic? Like, if someone in your family is having a baby or you find out that they're pregnant, what do you guys do for that person? Like, are you guys there for her? Um, does anybody in your family ever talk about taking classes together? Has any of your anybody in your family ever um thought about? Um, you know just uh, these types of discussions and what they can do for us. So, instead of like asking them because you like you can't ask a woman directly like hey, how many kids do you want to have? Like, or like what's your fertility? Like, and vice versa, you can't ask a man that either. Like uh, because you don't know these things right.
Speaker 1:So you can look within the family or within their close friends and see what it's like that way is there a way like to assess compatibility in terms of like children, like the vision for the future in terms of children uh planning for family?
Speaker 3:yeah. So I mean, like you can ask, I guess, directly like do you do you like? What do you think about having kids? And if they're like completely opposed to the idea and they're just like no, no, no, never, never. And then like kind of delve into it, like okay, like well, why do you say that? Like what if one day you decide, you just like change your mind, like hey, like yeah, let's have kids?
Speaker 3:And then all of a sudden it's just really difficult to obtain, um, and you can just ask them like where did that idea stem from?
Speaker 3:Or why are you feeling that way? Um, because you can't just go into marriage and be like, okay, yeah, this person is amazing, but our values don't align when it comes to like family in the future, because that can cause friction, right, and if it's, if it's a red flag for you, then listen to your gut. But if you really do like this person, it's just that one thing that's just like doesn't really make sense. You can just ask them openly, like okay, why are you thinking this way? Like is it something that you're traumatized by? Or you know what is what's going on up here? And it could be the same for men or women. You know, women might feel like I never want to have kids and it could be, um, she's scared to have a baby because she's here, she's heard horror stories all her life, or um, and then the man also needs to understand, like, okay, well, there are different ways we can go about this. Like, I understand your fear, uh, and also validate their feelings towards it as well.
Speaker 1:Okay, Okay, I was just going to say that you said traumatized, like sometimes like the reason behind the specific answer isn't like a conviction as much as it's trauma or lack of information and sometimes conversations that could change.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly yeah. So it's just very important to have that communication even in the courting phase. Even if nothing goes through, it's important to always have that quality of communication.
Speaker 1:A weird question that just occurred to me. Honestly, Like, how do Muslim men feel about the fact that it's I don't know like what's the percentage, but sometimes it's a male OB who's doing all the work? Like, do muslim men get like iffy about?
Speaker 3:it. And yeah, I mean especially with culture because, again, like this is a very intimate part of their lives and having like another male, for example, is just like well, you know? Like what are you doing? Um, but we have to understand that sometimes, especially wherever we are in the world, that's out of our control. Um, there are there is shortage happening right now, um, in canada and ontario specifically, of midwives and ob-gyns, um. So sometimes you get stuck with the male and as muslims, we have to understand that when it comes to these types of things, um, we can't really say no if that's our only option again. So it's going through the brain acronym. So we have to think of it like if I don't have an alternative, then what am I going to do? And Allah is not going to punish us for that. I understand like the husband might feel uncomfortable, but then he also has to understand that you're not doing it intentionally. Like it's not something like hey, yeah, I want a male OB. Like it may occur sometimes, but it's very rare.
Speaker 1:Okay yeah, the craziest story I've ever heard is this couple. They have six kids, mashallah. And because the man was so jealous and didn't feel comfortable about this, he ended up having his wife deliver all six with a C-section, subhanallah, yeah.
Speaker 3:And now she's suffering, suffering health problems yeah, my mom also had five c-sections and she had a male ob as well, not because my dad was uncomfortable with her delivering with a male, um, it's just again. He was the only one available and uh, she had complications and again, like she was uninformed about uh everything. So, yeah, she thought that was her only option.
Speaker 1:Knowledge is power like really, especially in this situation.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, 100% yeah.
Speaker 2:Let's say a couple find out they're pregnant, At what point do they typically reach out to you? At what point do you kind of jump on to their journey of childbirth and do you work directly with the OBGYN or like how does that all kind of fit together?
Speaker 3:Okay. So usually when couples find out that they're expecting, it's usually between the four like the one month to a month and a half range, and during that time lots can happen. So I typically work with couples when they start to feel like they need to start obtaining knowledge and getting that support from someone who has, you know, knowledge behind this. So typically around 20 weeks is when we start to understand what mom truly needs and the type of knowledge that she needs. I don't work directly with OBGYNs or midwives. I have, like my own self-practice. I'm certified through Amani Birth, like I said, but then, like, I just do it on my own. Uh, self-practice, uh, I'm certified through a mani birth, like I said, but then, like I just do it on my own.
Speaker 3:Um, my clients often do let their care provider know that they do have me as a doula, um, and then I would say, 99 of the time, their care provider is fine with it, they're okay with it, um, and they know that I'm going to be there.
Speaker 3:Uh, it comes time to have her baby, inshallah, so yeah, but then again, like, if a mom is also struggling during the first trimester of, like, maybe when morning sickness starts to kick in and she needs some more support that way.
Speaker 3:That's when they contact me as well. But, yeah, like throughout their entire pregnancy, we would have meetings, we would have classes together, if that's something that they're looking for. And then, once they're like around 38 weeks pregnant if there are no complications before that or no signs of mom going into preterm labor then I'm on call for them from 38 weeks until they have their baby, and that can be like, okay, I'm feeling this way or this is happening, and we just stay in touch the entire time until they're like, okay, I need, I need you here to give me some physical support. So yeah, and then there's also postpartum as well, if they need help after they have their baby with, like, breastfeeding or bonding, any type of thing, learning how to change a diaper, learning how to bottle feed, or if the mom had a C-section and she needs help carrying her baby, changing diapers, baths, whatever it is.
Speaker 1:Is this covered by insurance? By the way, by OHIP.
Speaker 3:Not OHIP, but there is an organization, like I said, called Doula Canada. They are covered, I believe, if you have private insurance, because they are recognized by Ontario. But since my certification is through Amani Birth, it's not recognized by insurance in Canada and I believe it is in the US.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, okay um, so yeah, okay, has there, has there been like situations um that you were involved in or you heard from other doulas where, like there became friction between the midwife and the doula or the ob and the doula?
Speaker 3:yes, this personally happened to me. Uh, subhanallah, it's just, sometimes, um, a midwife or an ob would feel like it's their space, and if they feel like another person is, it's like if you have too many chefs in the kitchen like right, it's just like they feel like they can't learn from one another, they can't work together as a team. So sometimes an OBGYN would start to say things like, like I said in the beginning, I have 20 years under my belt, belt, like you need to listen to me, I know better. Um, even like midwives would say the same thing, like I've been doing this for so many years, I know what's happening. Or, um, they just won't listen to the mom's commands or wishes if it's not needed, and sometimes they'll try to do things to have the doula kicked out of the hospital.
Speaker 3:Um, yeah, unfortunately, uh, it's very it's not as common, but it does happen. Um, unfortunately, uh, but they can't because, again, we're protected by our client and she wants us to ask a support person. Then they can't really say anything, unless we're breaking the rules, of course. Then, um, like, if we're, uh, you know, trying to do things that are medical, out of our scope of practice, then then we can get kicked out.
Speaker 2:Wow, I know this is kind of an extreme situation, but can clients give you power of attorney?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I don't see why not. If things are really like against her will and the care provider is doing things against the mom's will, then of course, yes. But the thing is like it gets swept under the rug because they're just like, well, lots of the courts they say like this is a medical thing and they don't really have that knowledge behind it. So they're just like, well, we don't know what's going, what's really happening, what's going on or anything like that. So unless they have like video recording evidence or voice recording evidence or something like that, then it can be taken to the higher ups.
Speaker 1:But um, it very rarely, ever happens is there an equivalent to a doula in our Muslim culture? Like previously, like historically?
Speaker 3:Oh, yes, yes, of course. I mean doulas came from history, like it came from our ancestry. They always had someone that would take care of the moms during her pregnancy, labor and birth. There would always be that woman there with them. I think I forgot the Arabic term for it it, but there is an arabic term for it um. I forgot, but uh, yes, there was always somebody there, um, to help them with anything, to help them with breastfeeding, to help them with their pregnancy, if they're having aches and pains, someone there to cook for them, someone there to take care of the baby for them, everything. Yeah, it's very common's very common all over the world. It's just, it's been, it's been lost, unfortunately, especially with the work culture and women working and, you know, listening to doctors, and ever since OBGYNs came into the picture, it's just been very pushed back back, like it's not something that you don't see, like you see anymore, right, right right, right and any last advice you would give our single listeners um, just know that communication is key.
Speaker 3:That is going to create a strong bond from the beginning to the end. Be open, be like, communicate, and if you feel like you can't communicate, then communicate that with your partner. Like, listen, and if you feel like you can't communicate, then communicate that with your partner. Like, listen, I don't feel like I can communicate with you. You know like I'm trying to tell you these things and know that there are resources out there, such as therapy, couples therapy and you. Just, it's not something that should be ashamed to look into or shameful to look into. It's there for a reason. Everything that we have in this life is here for a reason and it's up to us whether we take it or not.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely Beautiful. Yeah, I'm glad we got to discuss this topic. Some might see it irrelevant to singles. Some might see it I don't know awkward. I'm glad we got to talk about this and I hope our listeners took a lot from this discussion. Inshallah, we know we took a lot.
Speaker 3:For sure yeah.
Speaker 1:Alhamdulillah. I'm glad Alhamdulillah. Thank you so much for sharing your time and your knowledge with us and our listeners and beautiful listeners. We'll see you in the next one, inshallah Alright.
Speaker 3:Assalamualaikum.
Speaker 1:Assalamualaikum.